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Polyamory reveals problems that monogamy would have kept buried
2020.09.19 07:37 conquerorofnothingPolyamory reveals problems that monogamy would have kept buried
My heart is absolutely shattered. There is a gaping hole there now that I don't know will ever fully heal. This is a long emotional post, but I just need to share this with a community that can understand, and maybe offer some support and perspective. Honestly, this was just cathartic for me to write. My wife and I decided to start exploring polyam almost two years ago now. We married in 2011 when we were both 23-years-old. From 2012 through 2017, we gradually deconverted and deconstructed our fundamentalist Christian religious beliefs that we had been raised with and held our entire lives. It was a long and painful process, because we were in deep. Once we had deconstructed our religious beliefs, it opened us up to thinking about things we never had before. And as a result, in 2018, my wife began to realize that she was bisexual. We talked about the fact how she had never gotten a chance to explore that, and how unfair that was due to how we were raised and her not realizing that side of her sexuality before we married. After some thought, I told her that I was totally cool with and open to her pursuing romantic and sexual relationships with women. From there, we continued to have deep conversations on sexuality as we continued to deconstruct everything we had been taught and conditioned during our lives while we were evangelical/fundamentalist Christian. I did a lot of reading about bisexuality, polyamory, and sexuality in general. "Sex at Dawn" had a big influence on me (though I didn't read all of it). I ended up realizing that if I were cool with her pursuing experiences with women, why not also men? I didn't own her. She was her own person, and she should be free to express her sexuality however she chose. It made sense to both of us, and she said I should have the same freedom. Through all this, however, she questioned just exactly how sexual she was as a person. We had sex maybe once a week, sometimes every 1.5 to 2 weeks. She wondered if maybe she were on the asexual spectrum, and so did I. The question of whether she was also just more into women than men was also raised. All that took place over 2018 and the early part of 2019. In 2019, she fooled around with a couple people, male and female, but their activities didn't involve intercourse. I mostly just flirted with people at the time. Polyam was more hypothetical for us at this point. In the fall of 2019, my wife started therapy for a number of reasons, but mostly because everyone needs therapy. It was with a polyam-friendly therapist, and that therapist did bring me in for a number of sessions, so that we could discuss our own sexual relationship in an attempt to improve it. We had both grown up in evangelical purity culture, and it had given us the wrong kind of foundation for our sexual relationship. The therapy did help both us in our sex life, and after doing the work the therapist laid out for us, we began to have sex more often, and it was also much better sex than we had ever had in the past. After that brief amount of couple's therapy, we continued having good sex roughly every week for basically all this year (2020). I also ended up sparking a connection with a woman, and we ended up sleeping together this summer. My wife had some feels over it, because it was the first person I had slept with besides her, but she was happy for me. At the same time, my wife met a guy this summer that she liked a lot, and she ended up creating a connection with him. They started talking and hung out a few times, but nothing more than makeouts happened. He was from out-of-state, but they continued talking when he left. Eventually, they made plans for her to visit him (with my enthusiastic encouragement for her). She went to visit him just this past weekend, and I took a few days off work to watch the kids (we have two young children) while she was gone. She was excited, I was excited. It was a big step for her, but a really good one. But I wasn't prepared for what that weekend would reveal for our relationship. When she got back, I was really happy for her, and proud of her for the step she had taken. This guy was only the second person she had ever had full-blown intercourse with. Yet as we were debriefing her weekend, and how it went for her, some things spontaneously dawned on me that shed light on our own sexual relationship. Things that maybe I knew in a deep part of my psyche, but had built up walls around for my own protection. My wife told me that she and her friend had a lot of sex this past weekend. Multiple times a day, each day. She herself initiated many of the encounters. In the course of our marriage, which is nine years now, I can count on one hand the number of times where my wife and I have had sex multiple times a day. I can also count on one hand the number of times where my wife actually initiated sex with me herself, instead of me initiating (and of those times where she initiated, they were all times where she felt I could benefit from having sex, but she wasn't necessarily really interested herself). In the early days of our marriage (we didn't have intercourse before marriage), we tended to have sex maybe once every few days or so, if that. We weren't having it multiple times a day, either. I initiated, and not every time I tried was successful. Based on our sex life, we both thought maybe my wife was possibly somewhat ace/asexual. Or maybe she had low libido. Or she was just more interested in women. But all those thoughts were wrong. She's not on the asexual spectrum. She doesn't have low libido. She's definitely interested in men. She's just...not sexually attracted to me. Her experiences this past weekend made things clear for both of us. She realized she's never been sexually attracted to me, even when we were dating. It's always been purely emotional for her apparently. It honestly explains so much about our marriage. We don't blame each other for any of it, though. How could we have known? I was the first person she ever kissed, and we were both each other's first real serious relationship. Neither of us knew anything about sex. And she had been led to believe that sexual attraction came after the wedding vows, that God basically turned it "on" after you were husband and wife. Which is absolutely fucked. So she's never wanted me sexually. She said she is romantically attracted to me (and has been the whole time, including dating), and she said that she does find me pleasing to look at (she called it aesthetic attraction)...but she's just not sexually attracted to me. To be honest, that doesn't make any sense to me. I don't know she can be both romantically and aesthetically attracted to me, but not sexually. We are each other's best friends. We have a wonderful life together (including our two children). We can talk about anything, and we are each other's constant source of support and love. We have such an incredibly deep emotional bond that others have said they want what we have. We even survived deconstructing our religious beliefs together, and came out of it even stronger. Literally everything about relationship is great, except for this. It hurts so much. I feel hollow, like the color has gone out from the world. When I look at her, it feels like I don't see the same person anymore. I instead see someone who looks like my wife, but is someone I know isn't attracted to me and doesn't love me the same way I do her. I feel like someone has died. I feel sick. I am destroyed. I've been really struggling this week. Panic attacks, crying, dark thoughts. I don't want to live this reality. I'm not legitimately considering ending my life. I may fantasize about it, I may not want to live anymore, but I need to be there for my children and for her. But the pain is just so much. I haven't felt this way since my dad passed away, and I might actually feel worse now than I did at that time. I just keep thinking about how I'll never experience a full connection with my wife. The woman I've loved for the past 10 years, my soulmate, doesn't feel the same way about me as I do her. My life feels like a lie. I know some of that might be toxic monogamy. No one can be everything for their partner. But it doesn't change how much it fucking. HURTS. It doesn't hurt that she had sex with someone else. I'm not jealous, I wanted that for her. I'm happy for her. I want her to be as fulfilled as possible in every way as a person. I'm just so broken over the fact that she never has and never will desire me like that. She can look at that friend from this past weekend and think, "I want to fuck him." But she's never thought that about me, and never will. All the excuses I had in my head, that she maybe was asexual, or had low libido, or was just more into women, are all gone now. The illusions are shattered. The mental walls that I must have built in my mind to protect myself have been torn down. All I'm left with is the hard, bitter truth that my wife doesn't feel about me the way I do about her. That any sexual intimacy we have is one-sided—I desire her, but she doesn't desire me. I honestly don't understand how she's ever had sex with me, at all, if she's not sexually attracted to me. It's so confusing. We've had frequent good sex all this year (we've had good sex in years prior, too, but the brief couple's therapy in late 2019 helped to make good sex happen more often). I've been able to bring her to climax since the early days of our marriage (she doesn't fake it, and she wouldn't lie). She says that enjoys having sex with me, but I don't understand how that's possible if she's not sexually attracted to me. On the other side of the spectrum, there are and have been plenty of times over the course of our marriage where things might be heading in a sexual direction, but she shuts it down. I want to stay with her, she's still my best friend and my primary life partner. We both love each other so goddamn much. I want to make this work. She said she does, too. She said her therapist has even told her that we have an emotionally-based sex life, so she essentially already knew that she no sexual attraction to me. It's just this past weekend removed the illusions for me. I don't regret polyamory. I think it's probably what we both needed in the long run. But if we had stayed monogamous, these issues would maybe have remained buried. We're planning on going to sex therapy, but I don't know how it will fix anything. You can't create sexual attraction if it's not already there. My wife said she doesn't find anything wrong with me. She says she thinks I'm good-looking, but she's just not sexually attracted to me. She can't give any specific reason. And on the flip side, even though I desire her, I don't want to have sex with her right now, because it would just make me feel gross, due to the knowledge that it's one-sided, that I desire her but not the other way around. It all just seems like some kind of bad dream. It's a cruel joke of the universe that we could have an amazing connection in every way but this. I could go on, but I would just be repeating myself. I just had to get this off my chest. Thank you.
2020.09.09 02:59 Luigi-Board69How do you know if you should really break up? Seeking advice.
My boyfriend of ten months and I broke up ten days ago. This community has been a blessing during this time! We are both in our early thirties. I really thought that he was the one for me. When things are good, it's like we're in a secret club that's just for us. He's very affectionate and loving. We both got waaay ahead of ourselves imagining getting married and having kids (which we even named). He knew from day one that I was in consensually non-monogamous relationships with two men before I met him. Once we got together, I knew for sure that monogamy is for me, and that I wanted to be with him. He had a hard time letting go of my polyamorous past and came to the conclusion that I didn't see sex as the sacred thing he saw it as. He wanted me to regret my past and make a statement about the superiority of monogamy. It was easy to say that monogamy is better for me (having explored both, I do prefer monogamy), but it was strange to me that he wanted me to denounce polyam and casual sex in general. Even though we have the most intimate and wonderful sex EVER, this feeling of "not valuing the same things in sex" has been an issue for basically our whole relationship. I think we do value the same closeness, intimacy and spiritually in sex; I just think people should be able to express themselves sexually however they want to (consensually and respectfully, obviously). He thinks sex between two committed people is highest and best. He sees my openness to different kinds of sex (again, in general) as not being aligned with him, and he would prefer to feel aligned with his partner. Related to the sex issue is this: I have good, friendly relationships with two exes. They were the exes I tried out polyamory with, which is a part of the problem. I like being friends with these people, and I don't have very many friends so the fact that I've connected to these people is huge. There are no romantic ties anymore, I just think they are great people and I like how are relationships have transformed. A relevant aside: when I started dating this person, my sister became extremely ill with a brain tumour. She was dying from December-March. I was very close to her and this was devastating for my family. In some ways my partner was great--he would drive me to the hospital, and come with me to visit her. He was emotionally available sometimes, and sometimes he wasn't. The issue of the exes came to a head at my sister's funeral. Three significant exes came to the funeral to support me and my family, including the two mentioned above, plus a close male childhood friend. I was very touched that they all came. At one point I was holding the hand of this friend. My family teases me about staying friends with all of my exes and having male friends, and my grandmother asked my boyfriend if he was "the newest member of [my] harem?" He was extremely upset that these exes were all in my life and disappeared for 45 minutes during the reception on the hardest day of my life because he was so uncomfortable. He brings the funeral up a lot as an example of my exes being my "best friends" and how that isn't normal, and it points to something unhealthy. He thinks that I can't let go of them to make room for him. I have told him repeatedly that there is all the room in the world for him, and I want to put him first. I want to marry him and have his babies! I can have casual relationships with these exes and definitely talk to them less, but I don't feel right cutting them out of my life. He would prefer that I let them go altogether. The final issue is religion. He is very committed to his Christian faith, although he doesn't like the institution of church. I think this is cool, and I am interested in learning more about what Christianity teaches. Because of COVID I haven't been able to show him this by going to a church. Personally, I'm interested in all religions. I think they are all roads leading to the same home. I'm very interested in thinking about and studying spirituality, and I was stoked to be dating someone who also thought about spirituality a lot. I like to read the Tarot and I'm interested in Astrology and energy work and meditation. I like to read about Buddhist teachings as well as new age thought. I think all of these things teach very similar things, and I was excited to learn about it from the angle of Jesus. I recently learned that it means a great deal to my boyfriend that I have the same belief in Jesus that he does: that Jesus is the world's saviour that is above all other prophets, and that some of my "occult" interests frighten him. Recently he said that he would prefer to date a Christian woman who had the same beliefs as him. Same exact beliefs about sexuality, religion, exes. For me, it doesn't matter that we have different interpretations about Jesus and spiritual things because I think we have the opportunity to grow and learn together with open minds. It doesn't matter that he feels a certain way about sex, so long as he doesn't make me feel badly about the things that I think. I often feel that he wants me to change to believe all of the same things he believes, but he doesn't want to meet me in the middle. Recently he said that he would be open to learning about various spiritual practices outside of Jesus, which is a big deal. We broke up because it seemed our values were too different. I started seeing him as someone who wants to control me (or reform me?) and doesn't accept and love me for who I am. I don't understand why we can't organically grow together with love and acceptance? He says that me not understanding is part of the problem. At times he can be quite patronizing to me through text, and for this reason my closest friends are encouraging me to stay broken up. I feel guilty for complaining to my friends when we fight because now they are not supportive of this relationship. Or are they seeing what's best for me and I just can't see it? I feel like if I get back together with him my friends will roll their eyes so far back into their heads they might lose their eyeballs forever. Anyway, this is our third or fourth try at breaking up. Usually after a week or less we miss each other too much and rekindle, feeling like we understand each other better. But then the same fight happens again and again. Sometimes I feel like I'm on a ride that I want to get off of, but at the same time I just love him so damn much. We both still have hope that it can work somehow. He's very special to me and I love him a lot. There's also the piece of grieving for my sister, which is still very much happening. I feel that my boyfriend forgets I am grieving and picks fights with me anyway. How do you know when a relationship is really dead? How do you know when it's not worth fighting for? Is there an exact moment when you know? This breakup would be easier if I felt definite in what I wanted. Thanks for reading my novel. It felt cathartic to write it all out. Any thoughts would be appreciated! TL;DR - Break up due to different values, meanwhile my sister just died. Can't figure out if I should continue with break up or try to work harder to make it work? How do you know when to cut your losses? How do you know when something still has potential? Is there an exact moment when you know that a relationship is dead and to stop trying?
2020.08.18 21:34 LynxInSneakers(Hi this is my first post here! ) 14 dates and The barista, a heroic crown of (modern) sonnets on clueless dating.
Date 1 - The Flake
I open the door, walk into the coffee shop I look at my phone and I look around The girl I’m searching for, can’t be found Not in a nook, nor by the slate grey bar top The barista looks at me in my witty tank top “Fucks given, NUN” she laughs, a beautiful sound It brightens my mood, a flaked date rebound “What do you want to have?” she smiles when she stops “It’s freezing outside so an iced coffee maybe?” She laughs and nods and now sets to work She hands me the drink and says to me candidly “It sucks to be flaked, know what, have that on me.” My phone starts ringing, she turns away with a jerk Standing still, I collect myself silently
Date 2 - The Hippie
Standing still, I collect myself silently She is there, so this time there was no flake As we embrace too long for comfort, I realise my mistake While she has eyes like a heartache, she smells pungently It’s a sweat and burnt-tyre-incense used too liberally She seems sweet though and I don’t want to be a flake Minutes pass, beginning to suspect that she’s baked Barring that, she’s out of touch with reality She tells me of spirits and mind control pills How scientists covers up alien broadcasts Then she, unsolicited, pours liquid into my coffee I tire when she says it’s silver and will cure all my ills The barista throws me a smile as I walk on past “No second date this time then?” she asks gladly
Date 3 - The Racist
“No second date this time then?” she asks gladly She collects the evidence of this last "failed" date. Toweling myself off, the adrenaline slowly abates I look at the remains of cup and iced coffee “Naaw, don’t think so.” I say to her faux-sadly “So what did you say?” she asks, ready to berate “That for being a christian she held a lot of hate.” “Oh, a queerphobe?” she asks angrily “That too I suspect.” and I’m shivering like a mouse She nods and leaves to tend to the shop’s queue I stand up, breath out and force my shaking to stop “Want something hot to drink? This one is on the house.” She smiles pointing to their selection of brews I smile, sigh and walk up to the slate bar top
Date 4 - The Gym Nut
I smile, sigh and walk up to the slate bar top He’s standing there, smiling with a duffle bag As we talk I will my smile not to sag While he is beautiful enough to make my jaw drop His mind only goes on one track or stops It wouldn’t have been such a huge drag If he would do more than weight lift brag As he drones about his record for deadlifts my life drops We try to find common ground but this is an awkward chat I’m actually quite fit but I do other things than work out He helps my straight-female-friend-empathy to develop At the end of it we part our ways with the bro-hug-back-pat The barista sees me as I leave and perkily shouts “So when are you going to give this up and stop?”
Date 5 - The Rude Ice-Lady
“So when are you going to give this up and stop?” Her voice a cultured melody, like honey on dried ice Unimpressed with what she sees and wont tell any lies “Oh, I gave up five minutes in when I saw this would flop.” This comment made the last hour worth it as her jaw drops Though she’s been rude to the baristas, something I despise I have spent this last hour trying to be nice. As ice-lady storms off the barista smiles from across the shop I smile back and look down in my notebook Trying to write a poem about this encounter Not really finding ice-lady a worthy simile I give up for the moment, I stand up and look The barista is still smiling behind the counter She stands there, hazel eyes on me, like Psyche
Date 6 - The Crisis Rebound
She stands there, hazel eyes on me, like Psyche She was coming back from her visit to the restroom Heralded by the sweet smell of her flower perfume On the phone, she’s stopped to finish where they make tea The Barista pass my table, says “She’s talking to her fiance.” We’ve been hitting it off and I don’t wanna assume And when she sits down, smiling, ready to resume “So you have an open relationship?” I ask shyly Her eyes widen and then she’s looking all shameful She’s tearing up and I realise I’m the crisis rebound “We’re in a rough patch, I wanted someone to want me.” An hour later, as I sit there disillusion-al The Barista shouts, “Cheer up, good dates will come around.” I stare at her for a minute, she smiles back at me wryly
Date 7 - The Young Catfish
I stare at her for a minute, she smiles back at me wryly “Not quite the person in your pictures are you?” I wouldn’t bet on her being 18 much less 32 She smiles caught-in-the-act-awkwardly “It’s my sister’s pictures.” she tries with offhand delivery The Barista, curious, looks up from her brew Shaking my head “Sorry, I’d be a creep for dating you.” She takes her coffee but leaves a folded paper silently “Want a refill and we both can read it?” The barista, smiling, eyebrow and coffee pot raised I steel myself, because 7 dates in now I feel like a flop It is muddle of pick up lines and copied wit The Barista leans in, laughs and reads with "seductive grace" “Or will my bedroom floor meet your witty tank top?”
Date 8 - The Business Stiff
“Or will my bedroom floor meet your witty tank top?” Striped business pen skirt and not a hair out of place She reads my t-shirt’s print, disgusted look on her face The Barista is laughing so hard she coffees the bar top We sit down for the date to a chortling barista backdrop Bad start already and we keep up that pace Yet after the last bad date I am no longer that fazed Our coffee is still hot when we decide it’s time to stop On her 10 minute break the barista comes up to me “You seem to have bad luck finding love in this café.” “Ahh welI, will always have your fine brews.” I say and wink “Well… I do have this really good Breakfast tea?” Shake my head, smile, nod at the pumpkin spice lattes “Tonight I want something sweet and warm to drink.”
Date 9 - The Solo Sprinter
“Tonight I want something sweet and warm to drink.” He smiles at the barista nodding to my t-shirt’s print She smirks, asks if he want the hot cocoa with mint Beverages collected we sit down, our cheeks pink As the date go on he talks so much that I can’t think Edgewise words attempted, he doesn’t take the hint He seems to be one who enjoys the solo sprint But monologuing men is still not my preferred kink An hour passes, then luckily he got to go An awkward hug goodbye and I relax He texts, “I really liked our talk and you are nice, But I’ll need someone who can hold my tempo.” Sends “ok”, thinking “Am I running out of givable fucks?” I read the menu, but that traitor gives me no advice
Date 10 - The “enlightened” “poly” dude
I read the menu, but that traitor gives me no advice He has just mansplained polyamory And his version has a high toxicity So I debate if educating him is wise We have café bartop seats for this patience exercise Smiling saint-like he preaches tabooing jealousy And shows he sees relationships as zero-sum, implicitly Defenestration of him I consider, but I compromise: "We can stop here, cause I don't want a second date." Leaving, tells me to call when done with my “brainwashed life” The Barista appears, offers to trade cakes to spill some tea Can’t decide between the options on her plates A minute pass, she says to me, voice laced with faux-strife “Well, I’ve been waiting here, now what will it be?”
Date 11 - The Friend To Be
“Well, I’ve been waiting here, now what will it be?” After I moved my chess piece she whoops with delight Late I see my mistake and I lose this fight She asks “Up for another round? I bet you a coffee.” “I’m up for it, though of late I’ve grown partial to tea.” As we play, banter and talk of the things we write We both agree that although we both seem alright The chemistry is more of a friend to be Beats me again, so victory coffee I go to buy The Barista seems subdued when I say hey Smiles when I narrate the date, it makes me think My new friend asks me, as a smiling conspiracy ally "Do you go here for dates or to court at the end of day?" It was a fair question and my cheeks are turning pink
Date 12 - The Aspiring Mom
It was a fair question and my cheeks are turning pink “No, I don’t think I actually want kids.” This date is over based on her fluttering eyelids “Why don’t you want them?” said with a scream on the brink “I kinda just don’t want that life I think?” Her disgust with that answer can’t be quite hid But at dismissing me politely she makes a bid I sit silent afterwards finishing my drink The barista comes by pats me on my back Then she swaps out my cold coffee for warm tea Her hand lingers on mine, her scent is chai spice “You may actually be cursed. Want an on-the-house snack?” She sets a piece of the café’s “Love treats” before me I look up and my smile is reaching my eyes
Date 13 - The 50 Shades Dom
I look up and my smile is reaching my eyes He sits expectant, suited up, tie in a Windsor knot I say like Yoda, “Interested, I am, Not.” His first date “you’re my slave”-spiel equals no dice And at this point I am so through playing it nice He rises, cheeks flushed, quiet, expression taut “You’re never going to be invited to my yacht!” “My dude, Your whole ‘tude is a red flag maximized...” “Think he’d be hard-pressed to define SSC.” We sit and talk after he stalked off childlike “He was hot but that I’m-your-dad-now, doesn’t work for me.” Smiling mischievously she says to me “He should have gone for classic seduction? Like, I’ll have a cocoa now, tomorrow your breakfast tea.”
Date 14 - The One Who Walked Away
“I’ll have a cocoa now, tomorrow your breakfast tea.” “You know, as a one-liner it is not so bad.” I smile thinking back to that moment we had “You’re smiling again, would you like to include me?” I mention that the barista said that line to me Tell her of previous dates and she seems glad She says “That barista girl sounds really rad.” “Yeah” I say, “Her humor really is beastly.” Close to the coffee shop she makes me stay Motions me to the window, hugs me as a friend Extricates herself, gives my head a gentle bop She says “You aren’t here for me today.” She leaves me there and I start to comprehend I open the door, walk into the coffee shop
I open the door, walk into the coffee shop Standing still, I collect myself silently “No second date this time then?”, she asks gladly I smile, sigh and walk up to the slate bar top “So when are you going to give this up and stop?” She stands there, hazel eyes on me, like Psyche I stare at her for a minute, she smiles back at me wryly “Or will my bedroom floor meet your witty tank top?” “Tonight I want something sweet and warm to drink” I read the menu, but that traitor gives me no advice. “Well, I’ve been waiting here, now what will it be?” It was a fair question and my cheeks are turning pink I look up and my smile is reaching my eyes “I’ll have a cocoa now and tomorrow your breakfast tea.”
2020.08.16 02:46 ActualPegasusCan You Review My Coming Out Letter? [Crosspost from r/LGBT]
Hi everyone, So I'm hoping to live a little more openly in my life and drafted this letter for my mom. Can you review and critique this letter and let me know if it makes sense? ------------------------------------------------- Dear Mom, I wrote this letter because I can express myself better in text than verbally on more personal topics. I thank you in advance for making me feel loved and supported enough throughout the years that I can share aspects of my life that are important to me. Alexander the Great, George Washington Carver, Sir Francis Bacon, Mel B, Hans Christian Andersen, and David Bowie; these famous figures all share something in common with me. That something is the way we experience love. Just like them, I am bisexual. Should someone meet my standards of attractiveness, I will date them regardless of gender. This is not connected to polyamory; I only want to be in a relationship with one person at any given time. You might have already known, or had a hunch, that I was not straight, but I did not want to make assumptions and feel like I was keeping secrets from you if this were not the case. I apologize for not informing you I was questioning my sexuality sooner, but I wanted to learn to understand and accept my same gender crushes in congruence with my different gender crushes first. As always, I value an honest relationship with you, so wanted to make sure you knew about this part of me even if it did take a little longer to share than I thought it would. My original plan was to just date whoever I was into, and I would casually drop the pronouns if I were with a girl. I have since decided against this because, again, it felt as though I would have been keeping secrets from you by saying nothing until I was already in a relationship. I would eventually like for everyone to know that I am bisexual, but I am not sure how to do that yet. I am not quite as close to anyone else in this family as I am to you, so am unsure what approaches will best get the point across. In the meanwhile, take all the time you need to process this. Whenever you are ready, you can write a letter back to me or we can discuss things a bit more face-to-face. I have attached some additional information if you would like to know more about bisexuality in general, but feel free to ask me any questions too. Love, ActualPegasus
2020.08.16 02:43 ActualPegasusCan You Review My Coming Out Letter?
Hi everyone, So I'm hoping to live a little more openly in my life and drafted this letter for my mom. Could you review and critique this letter and let me know if it makes sense? ------------------------------------------------- Dear Mom, I wrote this letter because I can express myself better in text than verbally on more personal topics. I thank you in advance for making me feel loved and supported enough throughout the years that I can share aspects of my life that are important to me. Alexander the Great, George Washington Carver, Sir Francis Bacon, Mel B, Hans Christian Andersen, and David Bowie; these famous figures all share something in common with me. That something is the way we experience love. Just like them, I am bisexual. Should someone meet my standards of attractiveness, I will date them regardless of gender. This is not connected to polyamory; I only want to be in a relationship with one person at any given time. You might have already known, or had a hunch, that I was not straight, but I did not want to make assumptions and feel like I was keeping secrets from you if this were not the case. I apologize for not informing you I was questioning my sexuality sooner, but I wanted to learn to understand and accept my same gender crushes in congruence with my different gender crushes first. As always, I value an honest relationship with you, so wanted to make sure you knew about this part of me even if it did take a little longer to share than I thought it would. My original plan was to just date whoever I was into, and I would casually drop the pronouns if I were with a girl. I have since decided against this because, again, it felt as though I would have been keeping secrets from you by saying nothing until I was already in a relationship. I would eventually like for everyone to know that I am bisexual, but I am not sure how to do that yet. I am not quite as close to anyone else in this family as I am to you, so am unsure what approaches will best get the point across In the meanwhile, take all the time you need to process this. Whenever you are ready, you can write a letter back to me or we can discuss things a bit more face-to-face. I have attached some additional information if you would like to know more about bisexuality in general, but feel free to ask me any questions too. Love, ActualPegasus
2020.08.14 06:51 FaunKeHNew to this: understanding personal and relationship boundaries.
I (25 M) met an incredible woman (25 F) about 3 months ago, and honestly, I can't say I've experienced such a relationship where I've felt so cared about equally (all of my previous partners have revolved around primarily their mental health to an extent, which I knew what I've been getting myself into, but it's almost a surprise to not have that extreme burden in the way of growth as a couple). It's the first time I've really taken things at a much more natural pace (I used to be rather introverted and lonely, so I'd usually pressure myself into relationships fast). I was raised under a monogamous mindset, both through religion (raised Christian, now Atheist) and societal expectations. Having really enjoyed my dating life in more recent years (I've grown a lot as an individual, and have way more luck when it comes to women these days), so I don't really want to stop experiencing new connections. My mindset when it comes to thinking about polyamory at the moment is like 10% jealousy, quickly shadowed by 90% realistic thoughts and being excited and proud of me and my partner to experience these things. Things had been getting more serious with my new partner, so concepts of 'how to define our relationship' (FWIW, we don't care for labels, but saying "this is my girlfriend" just makes it easier for others to understand), as well as concepts of polyamory. We had this conversation yesterday, and I know that I absolutely wanted to be in a relationship with this person, and that I wanted to experience polyamory; just had to make sure that it's what she wants, but even more importantly, that she is #1 and I WANT to always prioritise her. Since this discussion, I've actually deleted Tinder (still have Hinge, but not really bothering swiping more, don't feel the need currently), and told/in the process of telling previous matches that I may be interested in that I've just gotten into an honest and open relationship (so far told only one, and she met it with overwhelming support to my surprise!). I feel actually closer to and more understood by my partner than I could've ever imagined. I know I've got a great amount of positive energy, but I also know that energy is finite, and wouldn't want to sacrifice any of the experience I'd share with my primary partner. She has been genuinely supportive of me to experience new casual connections, which means the world to me! She's vocalised to me that she wants to chat to previous male encounters, and interested in potentially trying female encounters - I'd usually met this with jealousy, but I can honestly say the fact that everything is up front and honest makes it feel 0% unfaithful in my head. I am rather extroverted these days and have an abnormally high sex drive so this seems healthy for the both of us. I've also acknowledged that she may enter polyamory herself, and as long as she treats me with the same respect and honesty, I don't believe I have any reason to feel doubt or hurt. I know I stay very loyal and committed in any relationship, so I'm confident I can put my (what I think are) strong communication and understanding skills to do my best to ensure people don't get hurt. I've been doing a good amount of reading into poly. Sexplanations has been an INCREDIBLE resource that I've found useful for understanding my high level of desires and sexual energy. A few very good points I've especially noted is how increasingly important sexual health is in this scenario. I'd usually get tested after each new partner regardless, but I have been and continue to be fluid-bonded exclusively with my partner, and use contraception otherwise. Also, honesty, trust, communication being very important to me as an individual, if either of us were to break ANY boundaries, I would consider that cheating. Another fantastic point is that "there are people who have already been through this, troubleshot and tested: reach out to the community and get answers so you don't have to repeat mistakes". As an individual, I live for making mistakes; I find I learn best by making a mistake once (but only once). This situation is a little more serious, and I'd prefer approach polyamory with the experiences of others, as opposed to risking playing with peoples' hearts for my own knowledge and benefit (so here I am posting on this sub for the first time!) 8 Signs Polyamory is for You (I agree with most points, although I don't like it seems to point monogamy in a negative light) was also a good way for me to understand and express with my partner how I feel. We're going through the process of establishing boundaries and understanding each other more and more, but we're both brand new to this, so I'm doing my best to make sure I don't rush into things, and especially not trespass in unknown areas with external connections (it'll be wiser to stop and save for later to discuss acts I'm unsure my partner and I would be okay about). Discussion has been fantastic and accepting, but we also both acknowledge that this could be a complete mistake, at any time this may just not be for either one of us (from there, we can have civil and caring discussion). In theory, it sounds very healthy, but I'm curious what putting it all into practice will behold. Any further advice on maybe something I've missed, misinterpreted, made questionable choices/direction in my intent I'd really appreciate be highlighted! I know there are a ton of "poly for beginners" guides out there including probably many on this sub; but if there are any strong sources you've personally found help you, please do share! Edit: ooh this seems like the important first thing to mention! How the possibility and thoughts of poly all initiated: I've been really enjoying dating and have been for the past 3ish months, getting to meet new people; some went no where, but some were great connections I don't necessarily want to let go of. My partner brought up the fact that shes proud, power to me if women are being treated the way I treat her; I hope that the respect both ways between her, myself and other connections is maintained at a high standard!
2020.07.27 06:34 sci_vegis my life story and late bloomer crisis allowed here?
TL;DR: I'm a 29 year old woman and have been in a relationship with a man (age 41) for 2.5 years. I'm moving away for graduate school and the pandemic changed our plans from breaking-up to trying long-distance after spending quarantine together. I keep going from 100% sure that I am actually gay and its all comphet, to not... not thinking that, but to really getting refocused on how much I love my partner and how well we fit together in other ways and how I'm being selfish and maybe I wouldn't feel less wrong and empty with a woman anyway. No real question, just need to get out my feelings. --- I was raised in a conservative christian home--no anti-gay message that I can remember, but an anti-sex one. I first noticed I was interested in women around middle school, but just wrote this off as non-important. It wasn't stressful, I just thought there was something that felt different if you weren't straight. (Yeah. Liking women--sounds obvious now, but I'm sure many of you know how different things were 15-20 years ago. General 90s-early 00s homophobic messaging. Biphobia. Internalized misogyny.) Had fairly severe anorexia in my mid teens. I had a relatively early puberty (menarche at 11?) but I still wonder if this messed up my sexual development. Also have been on zoloft since age 15. Sexual side effects are apparently a thing? Though I wouldn't know any different.' I had two boyfriends in high school--one freshman year, largely non-sexual, before my anorexia caused our break-up? Then I had a male friend who originally pursued me but decided he wasn't interested? Then we were inseparable best friends who got together senior year. Even upon reflection, I really felt comfortable in this relationship, but we never had penetrative sex. I do remember being interested in what we did do--just touching and eventually oral. But I wonder how much of that was related to just general, like oh, haven't done any of this before! Honestly, looking back on this is really one of the big things that sticks me on, well, I'm not actually gay then, but I know I don't have to be some peak level of "gayness" to be having this crisis. I went to college, I mainly just flirted with men, continued to be close friends with men who were clearly interested in me, but spurning their advances. I got a boyfriend sophomore year. We hooked up at a party thrown by the guy who I had actually done the "choosing to have a crush on thing" and had decided to pursue. He was the first person I had sex with. We were together for 2 years, but about every 6 months I wanted to break it off because it just didn't feel right and I felt bored and stuck. Sometime during our relationship I realized I was sexually interested in women. I don't really remember this being any specific moment, just that on a night in my life that is memorable for unrelated reasons, I remember having a conversation with a girl who basically explained that just because I didn't know if I could have romantic feelings for a woman didn't mean I couldn't be bisexual. After leaving that relationship during my senior year in college I came out as just vaguely "interested in women." I was very concerned about appropriating an experience or identity that was not mine to hold. After graduation I started identifying as "queer". I moved to a new state for a job and got on a dating site because that's what the internet said to do to make friends. I was into beer. I drank too much. I hooked up with men while telling them I actually was interested in women. I went on some dates with women. and was specifically looking for women on dating apps, but ended up being sucked into the BDSM scene and then polyamory. I met a man and I convinced myself, "Oh I'm not gay, I just don't like vanilla men." I've got a lot I'm still unpacking from this time but I've seen others talk on this sub about how much structure and pomp and circumstance they needed to feel aroused with men and I feel like that's what happened here. Additionally, I talked myself and him into a contrived form of polyamory, where we were primary partners who could both see women. Upon reflection, this operated as a farce where I could maintain this veneer of bisexuality and interest in staying with this partner because I had the opportunity to maybe have a girlfriend. He always did way more dating than I did. I left him for reasons unrelated to this sub. When I get back on the dating scene in a new city I am interested in women, but for some reason keep leaving my profiles open to men, identifying now as a "sapphic bisexual". I am still saying I'm polyamorous. I'm still going on dates and hooking up with men and women. I meet a woman who I start dating a bit more regularly, but this is under this poly framework and she has a live-in male partner. Basically she was a manic pixie dream girl and I was in a bad place in my life and I crashed and burned and ghosted her. I met my current partner through a shared hobby. He noticed me and started reaching out. I didn't know if it was friendship or flirting. When we met he lived with a girlfriend who he was estranged from emotionally. He is really good at said hobby and I found this attractive. I become confused as I have really started to identify as "homoflexible" at the most straight. I tell him I think I'm a lesbian. Soon he moves out and formally ends his relationship and I help him move and we kiss. It's thrilling, but I'm getting into this expecting casual and clear blunt communication about sex. I tell him about my involvement in polyamory and BDSM. He's majorly put off by it, and I'm pretty confused to be honest because I'd learned that it would usually make people interested. But for some reason he's still interested, and he's more and more interested and before I know it I'm in a long-term, monogamous relationship with a man and reconsidering a ton of things about myself and I say, "well I guess I'm bisexual". Despite for a good part of the first few months we were together, completely unable to say whether I was attracted to him physically or not. When we meet I know that graduate school is in my plan in the next few years and I say as much and make the expectation that the relationship will end then clear. I try to just live in the moment and work on other shit and sort of pack away ideas about sexuality as something to think about and work on after the relationship ends. We get closer over time, but do decide ultimately to break things off when I move to a far away state for school--but pretty much right after this decision is made and we're discussing how to slowly part but also enjoy time together, we're a 2 person quarantine pod for four months and the conversation and assumption becomes that we'll try long-distance until COVID-19 is over, with the idea that afterward he'd come see if he is willing to move to the new place or wants to stay in his home town. I watched the Contrapoints video when it came out and looked at the masterdoc around then. I guess it sat back in my head, percolating for that "post-relationship" moment. When that moment was removed from the game plan, everything suddenly became a lot clearer and more confusing at once. I I experience a ton of discomfort and disconnect in this relationship (and have done so in past relationships as well) and I suspect this would not be there with a woman. I often do not like being touched, especially tenderly or sexually. My idea of being attracted to my partner which is mostly "I love him and I don't find him physically repulsive." I am very uncomfortable when my partner looks at me lovingly or lasciviously or compliments me. When I have recently allowed myself to fantasize about women for the first time since I've been in this relationship--no specific woman, just the general idea of her presence (and her anatomy)--it is simple, easy, and instantly arousing. I've also been thinking lately about marriage and family and long-term monogamy (for the first time ever--I always thought I didn't want those things) and I find myself mourning at the idea that I might not experience them with a woman. I've told him. We've talked. He says I need to do what is best for me, but he can't tell me what that is and that he wants to be with me. I know it's hard on him when I bring this up but he's trying to be good and understanding. [There is also the complication that I have fairly severe OCD. My interest in women has been long-standing and I do not have any reason to believe that is an obsession, but I do have intense scrupulosity and a need for "rightness" that has recently (over the duration of this relationship) manifested itself in the context of the relationship.] A big part of me wants to call things off. But I have never been in a long-term relationship with a woman. I worry it might just be fantasy--If I knew I'd feel like an alien in any relationship, if I knew I'd never want to just shower my partner in compliments and be over the top romantic, if I knew I'd always have to work at it and play a part, even with a woman, then I would have no problem staying. I love my partner. We have a great time together and we make a good team. I'm really trying to sit in the moment and fight my OCD that says I need an answer now. It won't hurt to go long distance for now. He thinks it might make things clearer for me. But I just needed someone to listen, and he's done enough of it for now.
2020.06.18 11:09 KeetsuMatteNewbie looking for insight
---EDIT--- It seems I gave off the impression, and now that I've slept and had some coffee, I realize the lack of information made it sound like I'm using both of my partners. My new girlfriend is very much treated just as well as my first girlfriend, we communicate, and I'm there for her emotionally. She's not a secret girlfriend or something, both of our families know that we're dating. Nothing has happened without the consent of both my first gf and my new gf, I didn't communicate my feelings towards my new gf until my first really understood what I wanted from the relationship. I'll try to be more clear this time and not cut corners like I did in my sleep deprived delirium. My new gf (I'll call S from now on) was actually in a bad situation, and I talked to my first gf (A) about it, and she recommended offering our place. I had always had a crush on S, but never addressed those feelings because it wasn't a thought in my mind that I could be poly, but after we agreed to let her move in with us, I realized I had more than just a mere crush, which is why I decided to evaluate my feelings towards her. I realized that I was still romantically attracted to S, I had mentioned we might be able to let her stay for a little bit, but didn't mention that we had agreed on the idea of her staying with us. I talked to A about the situation after a couple of days of soul searching. It went good at first because she believed I wanted a FWB, but when I clarified that it was a romantic attraction she was distraught and uncomfortable with the idea that I could even be poly. We picked it up the next night and I made it a little more clear what I wanted from that relationship and she seemed relieved. She said that understanding what I wanted from the relationship helped clear up some things, and in the meantime we still read some posts on this sub and others like it. I talked to her again about the fact that we'd offered to let S stay, and asked if she'd like me to tell S we needed time, but ultimately A and S had bonded some in this time and she legitimately wanted to help her move. With A's consent, I talked to S about my feelings for her, I wasn't anticipating for her to feel the same things for me, but I felt that it should be known if she was going to stay with us. She still felt the same way for me, but at that moment we didn't agree to "date" yet. I made a conscious effort to make sure we had time to talk about our needs and desires from our relationships both separately and then all together. We kept talking like this for a while, it wasn't until a month or so later that S decided she wanted to move in and all 3 of us to consent on me and S dating. I'd like to clarify that this is a fresh slate for S, it's not just a simple move-in. She's leaving the job and life she had to move back to Texas and she did not take it lightly. Her move to another state was spontaneous, and after these 2 years she doesn't have very many friends there and no family. She has friends and family around here that she can actually fall back on should things get disagreeable. We've been constantly talking privately and together making sure we have all of our boundaries and needs in check. We're nearing 2 weeks before S moves in, and I'm starting to consider things that may come up. A and I have a clear understanding of what our relationship is and what our life with S will be like. However, explaining all this to A's family may prove difficult, we live in a very conservative Christian dominated environment, and A has family here that's very up-close and personal. We don't intend to cover it up should it be mentioned, but we don't know how to properly communicate this kind of a relationship to a group of family members that views polyamory as a carnal sin of sexual hedonism. This is not a current problem, I was more looking for pointers as to how to address it with them. Sorry for the confusion it was 3am or something and I couldn't sleep despite how tired I was, so I decided to ask about this here for some ideas on how to talk to A's family about this. If it matters at all, we're all trans women in our late 20s and A's family is putting up with us as is I guess. One last clarification is that everything that's lead up to this point has been consensual and I've made as many efforts to make sure everyone involved is comfortable before anything happens. Lastly, I've made it clear with both that I'm comfortable with my partners dating others. --Original -- This is my first time posting on this sub, so I'll try to keep it short. I wasn't aware I was poly until an old crush I thought I had lost came back into my life. Prior to this I've been in a very healthy relationship for about 2 years now, and we'd had talks of marriage in the future. With my old crush it's become clear that we're going to have to rethink that. My gf of 2 years is mono and we struggled those first few weeks of coping with the fact that I was poly, however, keeping plenty of communication like we always had helped her come to terms with it and understand that my love for her isn't changing because of this, not would or relationship. With her consent, I started dating my old crush and collectively we've agreed that it'd be best for us all to treat eachother equally. My old crush has stated that she was also poly but wanted me to be her focus. I'm unsure of what kind of relationship we're in, but we've been doing really well this past month. We plan to all be living together around the end of the month, and they get along pretty well This had gone incredibly well for us considering how uneducated I am. We referenced this sub a few times and it's helped, but I don't know terminology, or what to say to my girlfriend's conservative Christian family about my new gf should they find out. Any resources for this house of lesbians would be appreciated :)
2020.06.14 21:53 Exceptionally_cleverMy journey from monogamy to coming out
Context: I (32M) and my wife (32F) come from a very conservative upbringing. Six years ago, I lost my best friend due to cancer. Afterwards, it was a difficult journey through depression and loneliness, even though my wife was right my side the whole time. I had effectively checked out of life. My youngest daughter was born 17 days later, and I effectively missed it. It was years before I turned myself back online. (In hindsight, I really wish I had gone to therapy. Anyone reading this in a hard moment: Find a therapist. You are worth therapy, and therapy is worth doing) Coming back into the world, I recognized that I needed friends. And not just the kind of friends you invite for a BBQ once a month. I needed that close companionship and quiet solidarity. So I spent time figuring out how I could cultivate real, meaningful relationships in my life. At the same time, one of my out-of-state friends had begun exploring polyamory, in part as an attempt to save a marriage. That was, as expected, unsuccessful. However the two of them are great (separated) friends. He and her both grew so much through it, and I wanted to know how. He is a learner and a teacher. We had so many intense and academic conversations. I wanted to learn, but there was no way my conservative christian background would allow that lifestyle for me. As I learned more, I shared what I was learning with my wife. We played with the idea and decided to toe our foot in the pond. The first people we chose to date for different reasons were (mini) disasters. We both got burnt and were ready to just say this just wasn't for us. For a while, we went back to just us. And then I got a message back from a girl from OKC (https://www.reddit.com/polyamory/comments/bhqs9a/first_blind_date_wasnt_blind_after_all/) Fast forward to now. One of my best friends is now dating my wife and I've been dating that same girl for over a year. Things are generally amazing. With covid, this has been a bit of a challenge. Kids are always home, we're not going out anywhere, and the biggest struggle is that we're not "out" about our lifestyle. We went camping this weekend with our quarantine-friend-group that didn't all know, so didn't invite my GF. That was something I struggled with a lot this weekend. I missed her, but a couple of my friends don't know her or about poly. When my friend started his poly journey, he lost a couple friends on the way that didn't understand and/or support. My friends are all super important to me, and I felt like I had to choose between them and my lifestyle. I thought that I might end this camping trip sad and disappointed, but decided to pull the trigger and tell them. My favorite interaction this weekend:
Me: I have a question, but it might need a lot of context. Friend: Ok... Me: How would you feel if I invited my girlfriend on a trip like this? 15 seconds of silence... Friend: "I don't give a fuck, bro. Whatever makes you happy man", with a clap on my (very sunburned) shoulder.
We talked about it a bit, and he personifies attitude of live and let live. I had worked myself all up about nothing, and should have just trusted that the people I chose to be friends with are good people. Now, all of my friend group knows, and I don't have to keep secrets. I'm so very happy about it. Wife had a similar conversation and a similar result. The next challenges are going to be having that conversation with my children (not too worried, but important) and (by necessity) the in-laws. The response there is much less likely to be positive. After reading so much of the negativity and hate other people have to go through, I don't think it will be that bad, but still not something we're excited about tl;dr: Came out to my friends this weekend and no secrets is great!
About five years ago, everything I believed about the world was completely flipped upside-down. I [37M] was a devout Christian growing up, and pretty fundamentalist at that. I believed that monogamous heterosexuality was the only way to be. However, most of the relationships I had growing up, I struggled with the concept of monogamy. I never slept around, but it was always awkward for me that I was supposed to be dedicated to only one girl at the expense, pretty much, of all other girls in my life. I have a tendency to emotionally connect very easily. Sometimes I would get in trouble because my girlfriend was frustrated that I didn't hate my ex. Or maybe my eyes wandered and they'd get jealous. I learned relatively early on that I had to actively work at emotional monogamy since it was too easy for me to "slip up" and start connecting with girls I wasn't dating. It was such that by the time i got engaged I had to basically cut out all other female friends in my life, not so much because she wanted me to, but because I knew that girls didn't like it when I would connect so completely with other girls. I just figured this was what people thought of when they talked about men being "playas". However, as I mentioned earlier, about five years ago I had to rethink everything I believed in. My belief in a God had completely crumbled (I'm a staunch atheist now) and I have learned to distrust basically all large power structures. Among all the thinks I've had to learn to reevaluate, I've had to reevaluate my marriage. And I've learned that I'm very polyamorous. I crave deep connection and I thrive on that connection with multiple people at the same time. The unfortunate thing is that I've spent my entire life learning to stifle that craving. Meanwhile, my wife [37F] is aggressively monogamous. It is such a foreign concept to her to imagine polyamory in any of its forms. We've talked about it. She loves me deeply and anything less than absolute monogamy for her would drive her into a jealous fit. The only future she sees there is divorce. Even mentioning celebrity crushes (especially now) can be a touchy subject. I love my wife dearly, but I feel like I'm missing a part of who I am. And this is a part I'm just now beginning to realize has been there all along. At this point I've pretty much come to the conclusion that I'm going to have to live with this muted life, at least until our daughter (a teenager now) is grown and moves out. I don't feel like my own desire for polyamory justifies divorce (which is what it would be). And providing a stable home for my daughter is probably worth it in these crucial years for her. I know this probably isn't a typical post on here, but everywhere else it seems I get "you just want to cheat, guilt-free" which isn't true, but I don't know how to explain that. I suppose I just wanted to get this down in writing and see what you all had to say about it. Also, fun moment from my teenage years, during high school there was about a month when I had three girlfriends. They were all best friends with each other and they all knew about each other as well. We never got in any arguments. I was unaware of any jealousy they might have had (I'm not a mind reader though). It did eventually fizzle out when I had to choose one, but it felt more to me that I had to choose only one out of convention more than any real reason. But boy was I happy that month, and it really seemed like they were too.
2020.05.02 00:27 ThrowRA695414889My fiance (29F) is monogomous, but I think I (30M) might be poly.
Throwaway because my fiance knows my Reddit account and I want to sort my feelings fully before talking about it. I realize a there is a lot of stigma about polyamory, so I'm sure there's a good number of people that will dismiss me right away, but I'll try to explain this as best I can. This is something that I've been struggling with since I was a teenager, but I didn't really know myself enough to realize what it was until the last couple years. I'll try to keep the backstory brief: Basically for years I always assumed I was a monogamous straight male because that was "normal". I was raised in a conservative Christian household. Straight CIS monogamous relationships that wait until marriage was the only "correct" form of relationship. Over time I drifted from those concepts one by one. Sex before marriage, LGBTQ relationships - I began to realize that what I was taught about these things was all kinda bullshit. However, the vast majority of the world views anything other than monogamy amoral and/or unsustainable. Hell, until recently I just viewed it as an excuse to cheat without guilt. Now, in the past, I've ALWAYS struggled with monogamy. I've left partners for other partners, cheated on partners, and fallen for countless others when I was in a relationship. I'm not proud of any of this. It was all shitty of me and I make no excuses. Fast forward to today and I've grown out of acting on those impulses. I'm in an amazing relationship with a woman who is perfect for me, but I still constantly have those thoughts and desires. My worry is that I'll never really be content with one partner, regardless of how much I love them and how great our relationship is. My initial reaction is to just suppress those feelings and "grow up" because the last thing I want to do is ruin what I have. My perspective shifted a little recently when I was talking to an ex (31F) over text. I'm sure this immediately sounds suspect, but we broke up many years ago, live in different cities, and we mostly exchange random small-talk & well wishes. My fiance knows we're still friends and talk on occasion. Anyway I told her (ex) about wedding planning stuff and she asked how it was all going. I stupidly let it slip that I had aforementioned feelings of doubt, and her response kinda shocked me. She basically said something along the lines of, "Duh, I thought it was pretty obvious you're poly. I was waiting for you to figure it out." Now, it's possible she's trying to manipulate me, but I don't really see a motive. But when I think of it this way, a lot of my past makes sense. I feel like I was trying force myself into a mold that doesn't fit. Now I'm engaged. My fiance is very monogamous. She has told me on multiple occasions, completely unprovoked, that she is not interested in open relationships of any kind. She had an ex in the past that pressured her to try a threesome (she didn't go through with it) and it clearly left a scar that I don't want to reopen. She has has made it clear that she is uncomfortable with it, to the point where I think it would be a deal-breaker. Before the stereotypes and assumptions kick in, I want to make some points clear:
I'm totally fine with my fiance dating/sleeping with other men or women (she is bi), even if I don't participate. The fact that it doesn't bother me was kinda my first clue.
There is no one I am currently interested in. It would be shitty to even start looking without transparency.
I still want my fiance to be my primary and permanent relationship. I am still attracted to her, I am content with our relationship emotionally, intellectually, and sexually.
I absolutely want to marry my fiance, but I'm taking marriage very seriously. I don't want to start a lifelong commitment to someone when there is this looming desire in the back of my head which could betray her trust. Should I just get over it? Would this come back to bite me in the ass? I feel like 'breaking the seal' on this would be irreversible. I don't want this to fester into resentment, but I also don't want to hurt my fiance by bringing this up. I worry she will feel like she is not good enough or I'm not happy with her. Ultimate question: Should I bring this up, or learn to deal with it? If I do, how should I go about bringing up such a massive paradigm shift without hurting her feelings?
2020.04.30 18:17 thatglowingfishI don't think polygamy should be illegal (US)
Female here btw, if it matters. Why should polygamy be wrong when dating multiple people isn't? Of course there should be laws checking things like your financial status before taking on multiple families, but why should society be disgusted with marrying multiple others, yet open relationships and other forms of polyamory are ok? Legally it may be messy but what makes it wrong? Apart from the Christian roots of our country, I can't see why its so frowned upon. I can have sex with 3 people a week but the minute I want to marry them it's a moral problem? Doesn't make any sense.
2020.04.13 22:09 SageflutterbyJust Because a Relationship is Romantic in Nature is No Excuse for Poor Treatment of People
RE: Just Because a Relationship is Romantic in Nature is No Excuse for Poor Treatment of People Boy, I guess a reply hit a nerve calling me batshit crazy for my views on respect and courtesy. It really makes me angry that just because relationships started from a romantic attachment rather than any other singular point of contact or attachment, does NOT mean it's ok to treat other peoples like crap with control over their decision. Why is it people go into polyamory and then seem to think the default mode is that the dyad that was in effect at the start of polyamory is the holiest of trinities? Or parental configurations? It is quite clearly a fact that in our societies that there are multitude of people who parent without the benefit of marriage. There are a multitude of people who parent without any romantic configuration at all between them. There are also a multitude of single people, divorced people, and non romantic relationship people who all co-exist in our lives as a community. But it feels like people worship marriage and all other things related to marriage. I guess I should not be surprised, because the culture here in the western hemisphere is founded on Judaeo Christian White Anglo Saxon Protestant principles, which across most Christian cultures considered marriage to be one of the seven holy sacraments. I'm aware that my perceptions seem crazy because I fight against that norm. I am so sick and tired of seeing people hurt and treated like less than because of this indoctrination. If people really really feel that marriage is the end all be all, I can't help but feel that polyamory is a really poor choice to make because so many people not married to the original dyad are treated without consideration by the dyad. And then the parenting aspect - a biological imperative, an act that billions of people do without consideration every day, the very act of having children is such a normal aspect of our lives that I can't understand why using children as leverage against another person's behaviors is acceptable, either. We assume that because someone is a co-parent that their needs aren't being met in relation to the children and needs - but that is not a legitimate reason to treat someone like crap either. Just because I argue that parents need to treat their non parenting partners with respect and consideration does not mean I think the children should not be considered. If your children have their needs met and the issue is one person needs a parenting break, that is NOT a reason for veto, either. It's a scheduling concern that needs be addressed. And just because your partner vetos your relationships because they don't get enough time with you, that is not a parenting concern either. If you need time together, you schedule it and you line up a baby sitter (be it friend or family member or another partner). If you were not polyamorous at all, if you were monogamous and didn't get enough time together - you would not veto your partners activities. You would schedule a date and arrange childcare. That same standard should exist regardless of the romantic configuration you choose for your lifestyle. Children do not give you an acceptable reason to treat others like crap. And neither does marriage, not if you went into the polyamorous lifestyle while married. People deserve to be treated with respect and consideration - all people, not just the ones enjoying the enmeshment. That means if you have a partner issuing veto, the appropriate action is to discuss and find out why they feel the need to veto and then address that concern, not give them a blanket approval to veto and find it right - because when you entered into polyamory, and when you took on other partners - those partners were people just like you and the person you already had a relationship with. I don't care if it's gate keeping. I'm so tired of watching people work on problems in existing relationships and it feels like despite it being polyamory, so much of the focus is on preserving the holy sanctity of marriage. Well, if marriage is so damn holy, and parenting is so damn holy, why even bother going into polyamory at all and adding the needs of other people into the mix? I'll tell you why, because people are thinking about their own needs. And while I think fulfilling your own needs is good, I do think that when you enter into a relationship with a second or third party, that the scope of your consideration should widen to include more than just a spouse or the co-parent. It is not crazy to expect people to be considerate to each other regardless of your legal or civil standing, regardless of whether you succeeded at biology and passing on the next gene set for future generations. Yes, take care of the children, take care of each other - but that doesn't necessitate having control over other people's actions. That includes partners and non partners. Why is it crazy to expect people not to exert control over others, to exert control over their actions and not their partners? Explain to me when it is appropriate to exert control over other people and relationships, not yours, except when you are responsible for that individual (such a a child or guardianship). If your needs are not getting met and someone will not respond to you, veto is not the action. Ending the relationship is the appropriate response, not controlling other people's actions or lives. Staying together under the sole premise for appearances, for tradition, or for the sake of the children is not acceptable to me as a logical reason to continue a relationship that makes a person unhappy. Relationships exist to serve the needs of the people in the relationship. Co-parenting requires zero romance to succeed - you only need look at all the parents who are NOT romantically involved. I'm not saying that children are not important. I am saying that children and parental relationships are often used as leverages of control against relationships that threaten a person's sense of security - just the same as using STD and STI panels are used as a way to control sexual relationships outside your own under the premise of risk. I do think children are important. In my own life, I do make decisions that place the needs of my children above my own and my partners. I do, even when having a romance with more than one person, make sure that I give the co-parent a break by scheduling chunks of time for him to have his me-time (including video games, Magic the Gathering games, and Dungeons and Dragons as an example). Never once have I veto'd his activities nor has he veto'd mine (even with my partners). What we do is discuss what we have planned and arrange baby sitting if it's our turn to child care and we want to schedule a date. Management of logistics and chores is a normal aspect of life and polyamory and romance do not confer any special rules for that consideration. When veto exists it is because people feel insecure or lack the ability to communicate and plan effectively. Marriage, children, romance - none of these are excuses to control another person's relationships with anyone (romantic, platonic, familial, professional, or otherwise).
2020.03.14 02:40 allcleareyesHe's Dating Again (but I haven't moved out yet) (Part 1)
I don't know where to begin with this, and I have a lot to say. I can't easily afford therapy right now, and sometimes the internet helps me process, even if a dedicated therapist would obviously be better. I met my husband when I was 20 (I'm 34 now). We were long distance for awhile, and got married when I was 25 and he was 33. I moved to Canada to be with him, and became a permanent resident, which is probably the only good thing to come out of this relationship. When we met I was incredibly naive. I had been raised as a homeschooler in a fundamentalist Christian family, and had never had a serious relationship before him. Which meant that when my needs were disregarded by my husband, I didn't know that that was bad. I thought it sucked, but I didn't know I could decide to not be ok with it. When he took my stated preferences for things like food, sex, and comfort as invitations to argue (if he didn't share those preferences), I thought this was normal, just his way. When he was bad in bed (and oh, he was very bad), I figured I just didn't like sex. Because of what a blind idiot and fucking dumb baby I was, I let him control how I dressed, how I looked, how much I weighed, even what I said and did or who I talked to or who my friends were. I became very isolated, especially as I was in a foreign country, far away from family and friends. Eventually, I grew up, as many young people do. I got some world experience. I made friends of my own, and kept them, despite his constant disapproval of me having relationships that did not somehow revolve around or originate from him. Around the age of 31 or 32, I learned that I DID like sex, an awful lot, I just wasn't getting the kind I needed. I didn't cheat on him, but I did start reading more erotica, watching more porn, doing some erotic roleplay, participating in more discussions online, and in general taking more of an active interest in my own libido. He didn't like this, obviously. I explained what I wanted and needed to him, and he was alarmed and upset by my desires. He was very threatened. He was abusive and scornful. He called me retarded and broken. He tried to get me to stop exploring. I patiently tried to educate him, and he never understood or accepted it - he just thought I was some kind of freak. We never clicked in a way that satisfied me. Rather desperately, I suggested we try polyamory or some other form of ethical non monogamy, since he was not able to meet my sexual needs. He had told me he wanted an open relationship when we first started dating, but I had told him no, and he had accepted that. This time, he was the one to say no. So I told him we were done - that we just weren't going to work out, because I needed things and he couldn't provide them, and it was making me feel like shit all the time. I was leaving. He begged me not to - he promised he had given it a lot of thought, and he was ok with polyamory now. He finally understood I had needs he couldn't meet. He accepted me at last. I was very happy to hear this. Let me explain something before I go on. He did this a lot throughout our relationship. He'd stubbornly resist what I wanted or try to talk me out of it until he realized I wasn't budging. Then he would usually have an ENORMOUS temper tantrum with lots of shouting and stomping, followed by a "big revelation". He would declare himself a completely changed man. He would provide all sorts of eloquent arguments and big, passionate speeches to prove it. This sort of behavior happened for YEARS. I was so used to the pattern of fighting tooth and nail for the tiniest crumbs. Even things like what my birthday cake flavor should be were contested and argued about (I wanted double chocolate, he insisted it should be chocolate with vanilla icing). Or owning a garbage can. Not a specific garbage can type, just literally owning a garbage can instead of having a trash bag on the floor. I'd eventually get my way about small, practical, entirely reasonable stuff like this and he'd usually admit I was right, but it only came after a lot of trial and struggle and tears on my part. He would only capitulate when he felt worried that he couldn't control me in any other way. Everything was always so, so hard. And I had no idea that there was any other way for a relationship to be. (To this day, when my reasonable requests are accepted easily and simply by partners who value me, I will often have a viscerally traumatized reaction. I still sometimes find it very difficult and scary and suspicious to be treated nicely and have my tastes and preferences consulted and respected.) So anyway, this felt like more of the same, on a bigger scale. This was him finally realizing I was right (just like I was right about owning a garbage can, and being allowed to choose my own birthday cake flavor). This was, to me, what "normal" looked like. We tried polyam for a year and a half. It was very hard for him, and for me. We were both trying. But the truth was, he expected me to be sexually active with him, and I wasn't, and even when I was, he wasn't happy with it, felt insecure and inadequate no matter how passionately I sucked his dick without reciprocal oral. He felt like he wasn't getting from me what I was giving to my other partners. And he was right, I guess? Every relationship is different. And it took me a long time to admit this to myself, but I didn't want him anymore. I was having mindblowing, fulfilling, totally life affirming sexy adventures with other people I was more compatible with, and it was incredible. But every time I tried to bring this up, tried to leave, he became a Changed Man and promised he was fine. (Our polyamorous relationship wasn't one sided, by the way - he had my complete support to see and do whatever or whoever he wanted - and he did. He had lots of girlfriends and hookups the entire time.) Looking back, I realize how wrong it all was. I trusted that he was being honest with me about his desires and feelings, but he wasn't. He didn't really want to be in a polyamorous relationship with me. He just didn't want me to leave. He put controlling and keeping me above his own well being. And, it should be said, he remains one of the most persuasive men I have ever met. He could sell shit to a dog or feathers to a peacock. That's not excusing my own behavior. I should have had more spine, and just left. But that's what I was working with. At one point about a year ago, he ended up getting me drunk, then badgered me and begged me for sex until 4 in the morning until I finally, utterly exhausted and confused, had sex with him. I moved out for a month the very next day, and told him we needed to go to therapy. I know, I should have left him then. I should have left him years ago. I don't need to be told this. I know. Not leaving him the first time I said I was leaving him will remain one of my biggest regrets in life until I die, probably. Therapy continued. I tried to find a way to forgive him for the way he'd treated me. I devoted a lot of time, energy and money to the search for that forgiveness. It eluded me. I couldn't do it. I tried for months. I couldn't bring myself to have sex with him. I also couldn't bring myself to give up the important relationships I'd formed during our attempt at polyam, a thing he repeatedly asked me to do. It was all up to me, and I was failing. This is getting too difficult, so I will write more about this story in a couple days. Thank you for reading!
If this is not the right place to post this, let me know and I will take down the post and put it in the correct place. This is really mt first time posting on any kind of serious subreddit like this. English is my first language but I have dyslexia and my left index and middle fingers do not work properly due to trauma (will explain briefly in post). This is going to be long. I really need to get this off my chest. Starting in roughly January of 2018, my irl friend Kyle introduced me to three of his online friends. All four of us shared a bond over Fate/Grand Order. One of the three friends, I will call her "E" because I do not want her to hunt me down (if she sees this she will know it's about her anyways so whatever), very quickly got attached to me, and I to her. Skip ahead to roughly May, and I played this game called "Wadanohara and The Great Blue Sea", a game by Developer Deep Sea Prisoner, their games contain some dark, gritty, and triggering topics. Personally, I enjoy darker things like that such as Game of Thrones, Witch's Heart, Mogeko Castle, etc. E had also played this game, and was big on the fandom. She helped me settle into it, and the two of us joined some Discord Servers regarding it. End of June, E ended up forming a relationship with a girl we met who I'm going to call "nix". Nix was with someone already, but had also gained feelings for E. Nix debated for a while and talked to her current partner, and the current partner said it would be best to split (iirc they had feelings for a different person as well, but i have some memory issues so do not quote me on that). E and Nix dated for a while. E still acted weird around me, like almost possessive? I think roughly August rolled around and E told me she didn't feel the same for Nix as she did when they got together, and that she had had a crush on me since July (I'm female at birth, currently non-bianary/genderfluid. At the time i was struggling with my identity issue. I was 18, E was 16 but told me she was 18 as well. I had no idea she was lying). I told her that I had feelings for her too but she was with Nix at the time. She dropped Nix that fast and got with me, and made me keep quiet about it to nix who was my friend. I felt guilty about it. I was raised Christian, so being in a homosexual relationship was giving me major anxiety, and on top of that she was... not the best. E would go days without texting me (which is fine) but would text others in servers and completely ignore me (not fine), and continued to do so even when others called her out on it. She would, when she did message me, be a it controlling, and forced me to stop talking to a friend who I platonically called my "wife" (it's a thing I do to show affection and to show how much others mean to me). E would also get upset with me when I tried to be affectionate, or talk about marriage or things like that. On top of that, whenever I was talking about something she shifted the conversation back to herself and about how shitty her life was, throwing pity parties. Overall I was having a hard time with this, and it was giving me severe anxiety. In December of 2018 I asked to put our relationship on pause so I could fix up my mental health. Now, in 2016 I met this guy who I will call "W". As soon as I talked with him I loved him. He lives rather far away from me though, and was gay so i knew I would have no chance with him. While E and I were on Hiatus, I vented to my friend about my relationship struggles. How E was treating me and how I still had feelings for W. During the Hiatus, E still acted like we were a couple, and we ended up getting back. End of December, Nix tells me that she has feelings for me as well. This was starting to get stressful on me because I don't know how to react to things like these too much. I told her about my relationship stress and she understood. January - March was hell. E was too controlling of me and would ghost me for days at a time and leave me on read. At one point she ignored me for eleven days, and at one point during that she posted on her facebook "I see all of my friends happy and in relationships, getting married, kissing. At the end, I just don't think a relationship is for me.". She posted that while in a relationship with me. I'm never on facebook so i didn;t see the post. April came and things were too much for me. I had a breakdown and was sobbing uncontrollably. I ended up venting to W about things, and in my broken state it confessed that I had feelings for him (Hypocritical of me, I know). He took it well and told me that he actually had a crush on me, but was too scared to tell me because he thought it would ruin our friendship. April 3rd came, and I broke up with E. I did it for the sake of my mental health, and told her that being in a relationship with a woman was too much for me due to how I was raised. She told me that if i were with her she would have beat me, she tried to guilt trip me into staying with her, threw a pity party about how her life sucked, and how I was an asshole for doing this like she hadn't been ghosting me and made that post. April 6th came, and W asked me if I would be interested in dating him. I wanted that but I didn't want it three days after breaking up with E, plus he lived so far away. I told him to give me a month to think it over, and decide what was best for me and my health. He said that was reasonable, and that he respected that. April 8th, 2019. Sleepy Hollow IL Home Invasion. That was me. My house. My brother and I were the victims. my hands suffered the most trauma, and even now almost a year later, they still do not work properly. After surviving the incident, I had a change of heart. Life could be over that fast. I began to live more for myself, and less the way that others and my parents think I should. I told E that I had survived what happened, and she said "that sucks" and blocked me. Real winner here. I got with W. I've been happier with him than I ever have been in any other relationship I've ever been in. He's treated me with Respect, taken care of me, been there for me, and always makes time for me. Then we get into the second part: Nix. Nix still had intense feelings for me, to the point it was causing her jealousy and depression. I told W about it, and we discussed things. Earlier in the year, maybe june or july, we had talked about how we were okay with the other sleeping with others to fulfill desires. I want to wait until Marriage, and we live far away. Why should I deny him something he wants, that I am unwilling to provide at this time? We came to agreements, and that we would always tell the other before doing things. We were both happy with this. Poking around on Tik Tok and reddit for a while, I found out about Polyamory. I talked with W about this, and asked if he was okay with Nix joining us. I had feelings for her too. Living for myself, and not trying to fit into the mold my parents made for me has caused my anxiety to go down Significantly. I've felt more free than I ever have. W said that he was okay with Nix joining us. This is the happiest I have ever been. Both of my partners are happy, and I feel at peace. Life has gotten better for me even since April. I'm happiest now than I've ever been, and my parents and close friends are noticing it. Both of my partners accept me for who I am, and have always supported me. I am happy now. I am myself. I am free. Thank you.
2020.02.04 05:14 AikoDaAnimeElf"Why else would I have a pentagram?"
This is fairly new so there maybe updates to this story. Also, I apologize if this is a little weird it is both a fake witch and fake friend/extremist and a catching liar. This story is a bit long so bear with me. T^T Me: Aiko Best Friend: Nina Fake Witch: Anwir (Means liar) Friend 2 (Trans male): Law Friend 3: Merida Okay, so I am a sophomore in high school, as well as my friends. At our school (Don't know if it is different for other places) we have to have one year credit of P.E. A few of my friends and I didn't do it last year cause we wanted to do a lot of art classes (cause art is fun and I wish to be an animator). So to make life easier, we are taking it now. Why this is important is because everyone in P.E. are freshmen but us. We at times felt awkward there since, well, we're the only sophomores there. In this class we had to work in groups of 2. Of course, me and Nina paired up like always. A few weeks in this freshmen approached us. We thought nothing of it since he wanted to talk about My hero Academia (He probably over heard us we are loud lol). All was fine till we added each other on a M.H.A. Amino and made a group chat. Anwir also went against the rules and would group up with Nina and I. One night, Anwir messaged me (Late at night). He wanted advise so I said sure. Apparently he loves his gf, and has a crush on three other people (Who were dating already and were in good relationships. They also don't like Polyamory) I was confused and didn't know what to say. I said I am not best with relationship advise since my first relationship was online and didn't work out well while the other, well never loved me (Different story for a different time). He said okay and dropped it. Closer to Halloween I noticed he wore a pentagram. "Oh, you have a pentagram?" I asked cause I was curious since so far I am the only Wiccan I know at my age. "Yea, I am Wiccan." He said showing of his pentagram. (Note it was a dress up day to dress up as a visco girl and e-boy. So he was wearing a lot of emo stuff. Which at first I didn't bother to thing about) We talked a bit about what we have learned. After a while he messaged me late at night again. "Hey Aiko?" "Yea?" "I have a question." "What's up?" "I have a crush on Nina." When he said this, I panicked. Nina is a lesbian and is dating someone. I didn't know how to tell him. I felt bad. So I explained that Nina has a gf and that she was lesbian. I told him that I understood cause when I first met Nina, I too, had a crush but I let it go since she is dating. He said okay and dropped it. The NEXT DAY he hand Nina a note. It said: "Hey, I like you. Want to date? - Anwir" The nerve this guy has, and he is still with his gf at this time. Matty said no cause she is dating and is gay. That night he bugged me for an hour about how sad he is and how heartbroken he is. I ignored him saying I have a few test tomorrow. As time went on, he kept getting on everyone's nerves. He kept wearing emo clothing which we thought was weird but didn't pay much thought to it. A few weeks before finals, Nina, Anwir and I were joking how him and I need to be burned at the stake for being witches cause we "worship the devil". He then says "Oh yeah, definitely me though." He says holding his pentagram necklace. I asked what he meant by that. "Oh don't you know? I am Wiccan, Pagan, Christian, and Satanist. I mean why else would I carry this around?" I was speechless. First off, that ain't possible. Christians believe in one god while Pagans can believe more than one god (at least what I was taught in Christian therapy- I mean bible school.) Also, wouldn't being Christian and Satanist be ya know.... going against each other? "Okay.... but I thought you were just Wicca?" "I am, plus satanist, pagan, and Christian." "Okay, but if you were an actual Satanist, you wouldn't carry a pentagram. It is a symbol of protection" I thought he was confused or miss taught on what the pentagram was for. "Well, sometimes. Other times it's for evil." I almost lost my temper towards this dude. And before people say *well, is it upside down cause that is the sign of the devil* (Don't know if it is actually but many people always tell me that.) No, it was upright. He then accused me of being a fake witch for questioning and correcting his beliefs. I was more than done with this kid. Now Semi-Finals (2nd quarter tests), in our P.E. class, for our physical final we HAD to be in a group of 2, like if you were in a group of one or more than 2 then you would get an immediate 0. Nina and I headed one way to do our physical final, he followed. I told him that we HAVE to be in groups of 2 and he said okay I will be here. So Nina and I went across the room, HE FOLLOWED US. Saying how he doesn't give a shit if the teachers give him a 0. Thing is, Nina and I did! We don't want to do weights ever again. Luckily, the teachers knew what was going on and still gave us points (Though they could have taken him out of the group). I was fed up with him. He would force his way into our lunch group (whom he hates and they hates back). Law was talking about what he learned (he is learning about the Celtic branch) and Anwir literally threw a fit. Why? Because we weren't asking him about Wicca but instead a trans. This was not cool, and everyone was pissed. A bit arguement on how that was uncalled for later, we calmed down and nothing happened. Merida would always make excuses to leave because she felt uncomfortable. Now roll in new character, named Mich. Mich is also a trans man (IMPORTANT FACT) and is in a relationship with an amazing boy friend. Anwir literally claimed that Mich was breaking up with his bf and dating him. Mich confirmed this was not true and Anwir threw another fit. Saying how he should give up on love cause no one will ever love him. HE IS A FRESHMAN! He has plenty of time to find love and the first match ain't always the only match. I snapped saying that and we were not on good terms for a bit. Right now, he is finally grouping with other people so me and Nina have some breathing room, but he does bug us from time to time. I will try to keep you guys updated if more happens. Sorry if this was long. Update: 2 things happened today. First, in P.E. for our Fitness testing our teacher has more Strict on the only 2 per group. I told him straight up that well, the teacher said if you don't have a partner then go to him. He flipped out and threw a fit by chucking his fitness card and storming off stomping to the bleachers for a bit. Second, a friend of mine who we call frisk recently had their GF break up with them. Anwir turn out is a friend of the Gf (well, ex gf now) and is being very pushy to be with frisk though. He made them very uncomfortable especially Frisk just had a break up, they need time before they get with someone else.
This is just going to be a long story. It does have a happy ending though. tl;dr: I am not perfect, but my ex is a real dick, and he made me feel much crazier than I actually was. Hindsight is 20/20. To preface: The ex is now blocked and otherwise banished, don't worry. So, many moons ago, this dude and I started dating. (I am cis female, and polyamorous). He was not poly, and so didn't want to date me. But he did want to sleep with me, demand a lot of my time/attention, and then proclaim to everyone that I was "just a friend". I met his family, went on a short trip with him, did all the romantic things, but was "not dating" him. I didn't tolerate that for long, and told him he had to either do the dating behavior while dating, or not do it at all and legitimately just be friends. Keep in mind, I am polyamorous - I am totally fine with people sleeping with, loving, dating other people - I just don't want to be lied to or about. Anyways, eventually he realized that I was serious, and decided to actually date me. He was a monogamous person (he grew up Christian which probably had something to do with it), but was willing to try an "open" relationship. I realized that he was interested in this other girl he had talked about, and asked about it. He said he might go on a date or two with her, but wouldn't actually ever consider anything more physical with her than kissing, and that he had a lot of issues with her as a person, so although he might experiment, it likely wouldn't work out. She and I had coffee together (the first thing I always want to do with possible metamours is have a conversation) and got along great. I was excited because it felt like we would become fast friends! I told the S/O about it later in the day, and he was immediately upset that I had talked to her, and asked me not to do so again. His reasoning was that he was still new to polyamory, and he was afraid that she would be more interested in me than him (both she and I are bisexual). He also noted that he felt that approaching her implied a lot of expectations. Generally, I understood that it made him nervous, and decided that since I barely knew her, I could back off for the sake of his anxiety. For the coming months, he was wishy washy about verbalizing his interest in her, but she got all of the new relationship energy and effort. He and I talked and spent a lot of time together, but he got nervous and excited to talk about her, and made a lot of effort to impress her. At first he denied wanting to do anything with her, but later said he would just want her as a sex partner, but still that he'd never date her. He told me that they talked once or twice a week, and that once she'd sent him a partially nude picture. My thought was, "fine, but you're lying and you don't have to be". So - I did the thing no one should ever do - I went through his messages with her. They were constantly talking, for hours every day, and she'd sent him tons of nudes, as well as really explicit messages. I talked to him about it, and told him I felt awful for going through his messages, but that he just didn't need to hide these things from me. He took that as "I snooped and you did nothing wrong", unfortunately, and I never lived it down. We fought, and eventually he told me that he was completely in love with this girl and wanted to date her and see where things went. It was a big 180 from what he had been saying before, but it was what I had figured was the truth, so I wasn't shocked. After reading the texts and realizing how much time of his day he spent texting her, I got a bit paranoid about him doing so when he was with me, and simply asked him to minimize it. This is something I do for all of my paramours, and even friends - when I am with you, I want to really be present and enjoy your company! So, I thought it would be easy for him to return the favor. It wasn't, and I brought it up again. He told me I couldn't control what he did on his phone (which is true, and would have been completely valid had he brought this up to me calmly) and yelled at me about it. I didn't bring it up again, and whenever he was on his phone, I just did something else. But, it was another little thing that made me feel that maybe he didn't care too much. Despite my determination to be okay with all of this, he kept lying to me about the girl, and when he was or wasn't seeing her. He also lied about using condoms with her, which is not only unsafe in general, but also she had genital herpes, so I had requested that he simply use this protection every time. A few times he even double-booked us, and suddenly panicked when he realized he had done so. I bowed out in those situations, and said it was no big deal, and not to bail on her. When we went to events together where she might be, he was very aloof with me, and would sometimes ignore me altogether. This would have been fine if it was his normal behavior - but it was not. He was very affectionate if we were out of town where no potential romantic interests were, and proudly talked about me, my art, and introduced me to people. The combination made me feel very second-rate, and I had a talk with him about how I didn't at all feel like a primary in the situation based on the way I was treated. He basically told me I was being crazy, and that he had bent over backwards to spend time and effort on me. One time I absolutely knew that he was lying about having had her over the night before, so I took him out to coffee and pointed out that he was lying. He swore up and down that he wasn't, feigning feeling bad for me worrying, but then started in on me like I was completely insane. I told him that if he could show me his texts with her and there was nothing about it, I would relent. He told me I was awful, controlling, and crazy, right up to the point where he admitted that yes, she HAD come to his place last night. I just kind of sighed, and he started crying and asking how I could even be with him, and why I wasn't just immediately breaking up with him. (Lying then gaslighting me? I have no clue why I didn't break up with him.) I told him that he needed to communicate with the other girl about what was going on, and he swore he would. Over a week later, he still hadn't, so I did. I told her about him lying, double booking us, etc. She hadn't known any of it, of course, and was mortified. The three of us got together to talk, and I figured out that she thought she was the primary in the relationship. The boyfriend felt very attacked and talked down to, but he listened, and I thought things would get better. After that, suddenly she never had time (which I thought nothing of, since she worked and was a student) to talk again. Apparently, he was talking about me behind my back. While he had been telling me this whole time that he had issues with her, her weight, her mental health, her habits, that made him unsure about dating her, he was doing the same thing to me. He had also said that I'd implied or said outright a number of nasty things to her - which I didn't and absolutely wouldn't do. He said I thought she was stupid, which was incredibly mean and absolutely not true - she was quite intelligent! She was under the impression that I had been making an incredible amount of rules, and although he was trying, he was simply unable to follow them. (Really, the only rule was "don't lie"). As a result, she made it a point to find him at events, whisper at him while looking directly at me, and then make out with him. If he talked to me or did not ignore me for her, she walked away in a huff. Considering what she thought was really happening, I kind of understood this behavior, and went out of my way to be nice to her. I was mortified at the version of me she thought I was, and was determined to at least make the relationship a little better. However, what ended up happening was that she refused to go anywhere I was, and demanded that my S/O go by himself if he wanted to see her. She announced that I was fake, and my fakeness had been the problem all along. Well, fine. I still did see her occasionally after that, but I ignored her and she ignored me, and it was fine. Not too long after all that, she broke up with him for being needy, and just too much effort. No one really blamed her for that. I reached out to tell her that although I was his S/O, I did care and was there for her as well. She said some nasty things to me, and told me she was through with his lies and drama, and me as a person. Fine, blocked. Our relationship was shockingly peaceful for a while, and he started to pursue another girl, who I adored. They slept together, we all slept together, they kind of dated for a little while, and then he got bored (sadly) and it petered out. He dated other people here and there, but no one really clicked. Then he decided he needed to pursue the other girl again, and started lying to me about talking to her, then confessing, then confessing to still being in love with her, etc etc. It was painfully the same shit all over again. I told him that it was a shitty situation, but he couldn't date her and not lie to me, so I was going to have to back off of the relationship a great deal. I did, and he had a lot more time to fuck around with her, and it was fine. We were still dating and it was a great deal more casual. In the meantime, I found a partner who happened to be a mutual friend of ours. The S/O announced that he was fine with this, so I had two partners. But then s/o decided he was not fine with me spending time with the new guy, because I wasn't spending as much time and attention on him anymore. He picked fights with me constantly if I wanted to simply go to dinner with this person, and I was just done with it after what had somehow turned into YEARS of him lying and generally being an ass. I finally dumped him. He immediately shut out the other girl, decided he was never speaking to her again. He also decided that he wanted to get married, buy a house together, and all sorts of other nonsense. My reaction was basically "that's nice" and moved on with my life. The new guy, and former friend of ex s/o, tried to still be friends, but when the dude was an asshole to me and him both, he really just had no tolerance for it. The ex proclaimed to everyone who would listen that I was horrible and controlling, and that his friend had stolen me (the girl of his dreams... who was horrrible and controlling?) and ran off with me. He also had a new partner within days, who lived in a van in his parking lot, but had keys to his place. He was "not dating" this person, and said that they absolutely had to shave their leg hair and armpit hair for him to do anything physical with them. He also let them know that if I agreed to come back to him, he would immediately dump anyone else and focus all of his attention on me. (What The Fuck.) Our mutual friends made sure I was okay, and let me know that yes, he's always been a dick, and supported me moving on. Not a single person defended him or dissented my decisions. He still is around to tell people how awful I am and how much therapy he's gone through because of how damaged he was. He has PTSD from what I put him through, he claims. Last I talked to him, he still had no idea that he wasn't the victim in this situation, citing his therapist telling him how terrible everyone else was as evidence that everyone else was terrible, and he was fine. He announced that he had frequent, almost daily, screaming matches with his new partner. That was quite a while ago. The new guy I ran off with is my husband for about a year now, and we have a legitimately happy relationship. Not like "instagram happy!!!" but genuinely fulfilled and functional and joyous. We have had maybe two real fights, and even then, no one was yelling or completely losing control. 99% of the time we are honest, appreciative, kind, and loving to one another. I have never even considered looking through his messages or felt suspicious about his behavior, which makes me feel a good deal more "sane". I am happier and healthier, and I feel valued and secure on a level I never thought possible.
Very long story ahead. TLDR: Wife cheated. I gave up. Began seeing a woman who was married but separated from her husband. She freaked out and began trying to make it work with him again. Now I'm doubly hurt and alone. What do? My wife and I have been together for 10 years, married for 2. We were high school sweethearts and remained inseparable throughout college. Both of us were 100% faithful to the other the whole entire time. In October 2019, we began to reconnect with some of our old friend from high school. One of which was a guy that she had previously "dated" for like a month whilst in high school. I felt no jealousy or anything of the sort. It had been more than 10 years prior, and this guy didn't seem threatening. I should mention right here that my wife suffers from anxiety, depression, and bipolar 2. We often hung out with all of our friends, a mixture of guys and gals, at our house on Wednesday nights. I have to be at work at 7am, so I'd often turn in before everyone left. My wife, who worked from home would stay until everyone left. However I woke up one Thursday morning at 4am to find that my wife was not there in bed next to me. I began to worry, as I knew she was taking some of our friends home. Perhaps she had had an accident. I walked into the living room to find her and the guy sitting on the couch still in a conversation. This began to weird me out. She took him home and we had a conversation about keeping their relationship more appropriate. She agreed and apologized. However, the situation began to get worse. The next week, I turned in early and woke up at 2. She was not in bed. I walked into my living room to find her arriving home from taking this guy home. She then informed me that she had fooled around with the guy. I was devastated. I told her to leave. She presumably went to my house. I took a day off of work to recollect myself. When she came home next morning, she was in tears and told me she wanted to kill herself. I told her to call the emergency room, as our therapist had instructed us to do if it were an emergency. Before I could get my shoes on, she had driven herself to the ER. She was sent from there to a psych ward 2 hours away from home. She spent 6 days in the psych ward, and when she came home she began to give me the ultimatum of polyamory or nothing. I was again devastated. I hadn't signed up for that. We had never discussed that. This guy was poisoning my wife's mind, and I couldn't make her see that. Things were tense for the next few weeks. She demanded that she still be able to go to this guy's house and hang out, and continue their relationship as normal. She felt bad for what she had done to me, but was still not willing to give up this relationship with the new guy. I eventually kicked her out of my house in December. I began to beg her to see a counselor. Both individual and couples. She seemed very reluctant to go to either, even though she knew that she was mentally ill and needed to seek help. During these conversations, things would often get ugly and I'd lose my temper and say nasty things to her. Calling her names, telling her she was ruining my life, etc. I'm not proud, but I'm not going to lie to attempt to save face. She finally agreed to see a marriage counselor after the new year. I was relieved. Christmas was terrible. Although I have the best family I could ever ask for, all I could think about was my wife. And how she wasn't there celebrating Christmas with me. I then asked my wife to come to a New Year's eve party with me. She refused and said she had already made plans. This is where I decided to give up on my marriage. I arrived at my New Year's Eve party at around 8pm. As soon as I walked in the door, I was greeted with the happiest smile I'd seen to see me in a long time. I knew this woman. We can call her S. She had gone to high school with me, and had gone to the same college as me for a short time. It felt nice to have someone look so happy when I walked in a room. I didn't think much of it, but it was really nice. Everyone at the party was really happy, all having a good time, and eventually someone asked me if my wife was coming to the party. I told them that I didn't know. My wife did, however show up to our party, for about an hour, only long enough to tell me she had taken some drugs at "new guy's" party and to give me a new year's kiss. She left shortly thereafter. I continued to hang out with my friends still at the party, as I had made plans to crash on the couch. I didn't know at the time, but S had also made plans to crash on the couch (it's a big couch). S and I began to talk about my marriage and what all had happened. She also shared some of her struggles with her marriage, and that she had been separated from her husband for more than a year. We then began to watch a Lord of the Rings movie and talk about all kinds of things. We just clicked. Like puzzle pieces falling into place. It was crazy. We stayed up all night talking. I wanted to kiss her. And I knew I'd regret if I didn't. I thought that might be the end of it, and that I might never see her again. So I seized my moment. I felt human again. We left in the morning. And I wasn't sure that I'd be able to see her again. However, we began talking on Facebook Messenger and I went over to her house that evening. I met her kids. Let me be clear. I'm a school teacher. I've always been of the mind set that I don't want kids. I teach them for 8 hours and send them home. I come home to my dogs and that's enough for me. Her relationship with her kids made me begin to think that it wouldn't be that bad. We hung out a few times, watching movies, talking about jobs, spending time with her sons. The day of my marriage counseling arrived. During the session, my wife made it clear that she still wanted this other man in her life to the counselor. This sent me over the edge. My marriage was over. This was the point of no return. In order for my marriage to work, this guy had to be out of my life for good. If she wanted to have a relationship with him, then she wouldn't have a relationship with me. I had already made that clear before this time. But now it was happening. I left the appointment feeling, not angry, not sad, not hopeful, but apathetic toward my failing marriage. I had already given it up. It was like amputating an arm. I want my arm. But if my arm is infected and going to kill me, I'm going to have it cut off. This was how I felt about my marriage. I had amputated my marriage from my mind. I went back to S's house that night and watched a movie with her and her kids. Everything was easy with us. It all just felt good. We had talked about our feelings, and she felt similarly to me. This was a Friday. I stayed again on Saturday. I left Sunday morning. This is where things started to change. She got really stuck in her head and began to wonder why things were so easy with me and hadn't been with her husband. Why was she so willing to be open about everything with me, but not her husband. She began to blame herself for his cheating and verbal abuse toward her. Perhaps if she had been more affectionate, then he wouldn't have been the way he was. Up until this point, we talked all the time. Now I was lucky to get 2 messages a day from her. Yeah, she was going back to work, but I figured she'd get more than 2 messages to me. And just like some kind of movie, my wife snaps out of whatever kind of trance she's been in over this guy. She turns a complete 180 and realizes what all she's done to me. What all she's done to her relationship with her friends. How everyone is mad at her for making these choices. How she's cut herself off from all of my family. Remember, I mentioned that she has been diagnosed with bipolar 2. I'd been trying to tell her she was sick and to go see a counselor for 2 months. But each time I did, she would tell me I was being unfair. However, now to realized that it was a manic episode and that every feeling she had could be traced back to this illness, and manipulation from new guy. I am a Christian man and after she begged me, moved out of new guy's house, and seemed like she really did want to make us work gave her one last shot. After all, I agreed to be there for her in sickness and in health. Before we agreed on anything, though, I told her about me and S. She was understandably not happy. Heartbroken. But I told her I wouldn't talk to her, just like I didn't want her to talk to her new guy. We agreed. She moved back in. This was last week. I must admit, that in a moment of weakness and pain, I did ask S to talk. She didn't reply. I left it alone. Wife went through my messages and not only read that I'd asked to talk to her when I said that I wouldn't, but also all the prior messages with S. I felt violated. I told her she had a week to find another place to go. Her week is up tomorrow. S wouldn't talk to me, so I, like some sort of stalker, showed up at her office and waited for her to come out on a smoke break to just have 5 minutes to talk to her. She wasn't upset. She talked to me and told me that she and her husband had been talking and things were going well. He was going to move in and they would see where things would go after that. I respected that. Told her I was genuinely happy for her, and left. I told myself that I wasn't going to do to her marriage what new guy did to mine. Deep in my heart, I want S to be happy. Even if it's not with me. But it hurts. She consumes my thoughts . Even though we only were... whatever we were... for a week, the connection we had was incredible. Her husband has a track record of not being a great guy to start with. And it seems likely that she will get hurt at some point in the future. And that hurts me deeply. For now, I'm trying to discover who I am without a relationship. I was a kid the last time I wasn't in a serious relationship. But what do I do to make the dream of S go away? To make the longing in my soul go away? To make the pain of my failed marriage go away? My friends tell me I can't blame myself, but I can't help but think that 2 women ran from me. Is it me? I need some advice from anon people on the Internet, Reddit. I've never been this low.
2020.01.03 01:56 Peen_the_UngiftedLearning through the wrong way because nobody knew better, nobody else helped and then living with yourself because of it.
username checks out. I had poly tendencies ever since I was able to have any inkling that girls were into me. I was raised as a conservative monogamous Christian with a shitty parent who was the living embodiment of "What I do good, everything else I no do bad" unless somehow he discovered it all on his own, like Nirvana in 2011. I had my first "girlfriend" in 8th grade while there was two other girls who were into me at the time and I had fantasies of sharing three way kisses/etc. and everyone being okay with it. After all, they liked me a lot, if I like them both, and they were both bisexual, why couldn't it work? 8th grade logic, somehow ahead and behind of the times. I "cheated" on my girlfriend at the time and started a very short, automatically doomed "relationship" with one of the other girls. The second girl's friend yelled at me saying to choose one, which I did and stuck with my girlfriend for very shallow reasons and a lot of guilt. Funnily enough, the second girl said she was okay with the fact that I would be with both when we started, considering a majority of teen relationships are just sappy long texts, sexts, and pictures when you don't go to the same school. When I confessed a day later to my gf and cried about it, she was very mellow about the fact and said "well, okay, just please don't do that again." I repressed myself because I saw the entire thing as toxic for the wrong reasons, and honestly just made everything worse. This began a long trend of finding who I was by constantly making mistakes, cheating, a huge misunderstanding of alternative lifestyles both by misrepresentation in media and bad examples in life, internalized homophobia, and the nearly 10 years of deprogramming from my Bible-thumping indoctrination since being born into my middle class suburban white Christian family. I hated myself as a teenager, and I still hate how he acted to this day. The only relationship in which I didn't have some form of side piece only lasted a week. I somehow recognized that there was a reason behind all these escapades sometime in community college 2013. I still had the monogamous nuclear worldview and I didn't want to date my now-primary at the time because I knew I would ruin everything and her friendship meant everything in the world to me. I also felt like she should know better since she was one of those girls back in middle school who liked me and we made out behind the buildings before first period one day when I was still in infatuation stage with my girlfriend. She didn't care and we dated. And I had several opportunities to sleep with other girls and I took them without even sparing a second thought. My view was simply "I have no intentions with these other girls than to fuck them because they're different, maybe I can learn something new and bring it back into my relationship." I had no intention on starting anything, I just wanted to "live the college lifestyle." Still, that doesn't fly with a monogamous viewpoint, and the fact that she didn't know about them is a travesty in the poly community. Me and my primary started having sexual problems due to some mental and health conditions that are none of your fucking business, and I was a complete jackass about it. I was super ignorant on mental health and illnesses due to the fact that Christians in my family don't believe in mental illness, so I figured it's just like regular illness where you're sick for a while and then get better. Then I, in my infinite 19-20 year-old wisdom, figured the reason she was feeling horrible about herself was my lack of sexual prowess. That evolved, from fights and other stuff that new couples get into, "she doesn't want to have sex with me, ever, her libido is too low because of [redacted] in her head. But I can't not have sex either, it makes me feel ugly, unwanted, depressed, and horrible. Maybe I should just find someone else who will want to fuck me and is okay that I have a girlfriend so she won't expect anything more" I met a girl at a different college I transferred to. She was like a godsend. She knew I had a girlfriend, set up some easy boundaries for us and encouraged me to do the same, gave me all sorts of "homework" and things for exploring my sexuality, and kept visits focused on what we said they were and only text me when it came to making plans for next time or a funny video. Dynamic was good for about six months until she invited me over to her house to decorate the tree. She even asked me to put the star on top though her dad was in the room. Maybe it's just me, but I felt like this was crossing into family territory, as if she wanted me to be part of her family experience instead of me just being some closeby dick. She even got me a really well-thought-out present. If I remember correctly, I ghosted her almost right after because this was coming too close to emotional, and I was not going to do the whole emotional dance with another person, not as I understood the world then. My primary found out maybe another six months after that by digging through old messages on a day I lent her my phone because hers broke. We had a huge fight, she didn't break up with me, I got drunk that night, my car got towed the next morning. She reveled in that last bit. Again we thought we "fixed" things by me admitting my surface level behavior of cheating was just me being a sex maniac and I needed to control myself. More suppression, more conflicting feelings since I always felt emotionally loyal towards her. When I first heard the term "polyamory" was actually from a Breaking Benjamin song in high school. The second time it was from a coworker in 2016 who had been in one with a guy and another girl and how mistreated she felt in it. It sounded horrible and one-sided, so I quickly just logged all that info under "junk" in my head. Didn't stop me from seeking out other partners who could fuck me yet respect my girlfriend. Surprised even at the number of people and the different walks they came from and how they accommodated me, some of them openly praising her as talented, beautiful, sweet, etc. and when we stopped doing things, that was the end and they remained somewhat distant friends. 2018 was when the system failed. More problems with bad communication on both ends and lack of compromise on her end because of living arrangements as well as her well-worded line "We could never have sex again for the rest of our lives and I would not be any worse off." I met a girl who was one of my most gifted partners ever. Literally every time we hooked up it just got better and better and better. We spent more time together, we did things together, we hung out, she knew I had a girlfriend, I told her she had no obligation to me and could sleep with whoever else she wanted (because she asked since an old fwb had this problem), we did lots of drugs, we had good conversation. It was mindmelting, and I was constantly having nervous breakdowns by myself because of how I felt. The only thing that kept me going was that I assumed that, like with all my other partners, she was more experienced, more open minded, and seemed to have a good grip on what we established. Until she asked me out when we were out in the desert. I almost had a heart attack and died naked in that tent next to her and her four friends who were sleeping since it was 5 in the morning. I obviously refused and told her exactly why I couldn't do that, that I loved my girlfriend, always would, and that we were doing this because A) I didn't want to try to force my partner to have sex with me but I needed to fuck anyway and B) She knew about my girlfriend and we had agreed it wouldn't go any farther than what we were doing and I was a dick to fill the space until we found her a good boyfriend. I didn't cut her off and it kept escalating as I kept trying to hide the affair. Neither of us knew anything about the poly community save for my obviously bad examples I heard previously. When I watched that Vox explained on Netflix, I felt like I suddenly understood everything with what was going on with me. Yes, there were a couple times when I was a teen when I cheated out of malice and that was a horrible thing to do. But other times, several people had gone through the same experience as me. I made her watch it with me when she got home from work. We went out to eat a couple days later and through utter terror I hadn't felt since the first time I drove on acid I managed to stumble some words out about wanting to open the relationship because of it, meaning we could both have other partners. I was shook when she agreed. When she asked if there was someone I already had in mind, I half-lied and said some other girls name that I liked, but wasn't thinking about. My primary already knew this girl's name from me talking about me hanging out with her and my friends, and she already hated how I said her name too. The next day I decided that since she was already so calm about the open relationship I should try to come somewhat clean and tell her I wanted to be with this girl at least sexually. She flat out refused and chewed me out and told me to go on Tinder. Tinder was actually fuel for both obsession and fear for me, because everyone knows it's way easier for a woman who's looking for casual sex to get some than a guy, especially one in a relationship where you have to explain to these people every time that yes, she knows. Thirty seconds of leaving my phone unattended looking for something and I get a text from this girl and everything is revealed. Another long tearful talk trying to get out feelings and emotions but too guilt-ridden to even bother defending myself or calling her out on her uncompromising patterns of why I felt like our relationship was lacking or one-sided, especially in the physical department (and no not just sex, I mean literally everything.) Another time I let myself get talked into sex by the other girl, another few weeks of being threatened by blackmail if I tried to stop again. Another fight with my primary, until finally she said "okay fine, you know what, me and [redacted] will share you. We'll establish boundaries." These boundaries were extremely bad, and because of everything that happened my guilt outweighed anything that could have made things fair, I had no spine since I felt like my primary was just compromising with me for me, so I made everything she asked for priority, even if it meant my actions were stupid rude to my new secondary. They just could not keep calm and they raged at me about the other, making me give into toxic behavior as well. I unfairly handled the breakup with my secondary, as it was for my primary and not because I felt it. It was all bad for everyone there. But I can't let this girl go, I've never met anyone like her except maybe my primary. They were complementary. 2019, same story, different year, more headaches and stress. I took a break from the affair with the secondary because of problems, slept with someone entirely different, was then told that "it's still cheating even if we were on break" (which I still cannot subscribe to her mindset on that given our history and circumstance) And then me, my primary, and ex-second tried again to be a V (since at this point we finally learned the word for it). I had much more of a spine, I stood up for my secondary and put my primary in her place when she was having bouts of jealousy, I widened boundaries but still tried to keep in good faith. Life was good for a short minute, I had two girls who cooked for me, called me daddy, and I could do drugs with while hanging out with our dogs on a nature trial. It was doomed to fail, a due to my secondary's own mental health problems and struggle with deprogramming from shitty parenting, instability in life, and self-destructive tendencies. Bad things happened, no matter what I did it was never good enough for my second. She even had a rule that "until we figure us out, we're not sleeping with anyone outside. You can sleep with [primary] but nobody else" but she managed to sleep with her ex during this time, so...more one-sided rules. I broke up with her this time because I felt like she was controlling, negative, manipulative, and spoke in double meanings and ambiguity. It also didn't feel right that she could fuck other people but I couldn't, specifically the entirely different person. My primary agreed with me that I should be able to and that she personally had no problem with it. I still hate the fact that my primary and ex hate each other. And there's nothing I can do about it to fix it because I was the source and their catalyst. If I had any idea about polyamory, if I knew how to be honest with myself, maybe be a bit more upright in how I stood, they would have liked each other. In fact I know they would like each other. But it will never happen. I wrote this out because it's fucking stupid how many times I see posts out here with "Out of nowhere my partner suggested polyamory and here I am with five of the greatest people in my life!" as if this community was always perfect and everyone knew better. So many people don't know, have never been taught, are programmed to think in ways we don't naturally feel, and these people will make mistakes because of it. There might even be people here going through some similar motions or have and feel like they don't deserve a say because "they didn't do it right" and ignoring their entire journey of self-improvement. Me and my primary are doing fine, our relationship is stable, and any of the few outsiders who come into our lives recently have been very respectful and I've found it much easier to communicate and be honest. TL;DR: I was poly since I could remember, repressed it due to lack of knowledge and upbringing, and it turned into toxicity that caused a lot of damage. I'm now working on improving myself and I hope others will let go of their mistakes to improve themselves as well.
2019.12.29 15:13 Xenutja"Came out" as Polyamorous to my conservative mum. Her response shocked me.
I came out as Poly to my 54-year-old mum. She's typically a very judgmental, conservative Christian woman who believes in one-man, one-woman dynamics. I was dating my fiancé at this point (whom she knew about), but I began dating another guy simultaneously. After awhile, I wanted to share my amazing guys with my family, rather than keeping one a "dirty little secret". I decided right then and there to just come out with it and tell her everything. I already came out to her as Pansexual and Atheist, so coming out as Poly couldn't be that much worse, right? Still, I prepared for the worst of reactions, knowing my mother. First, I asked her if she knew what Polyamory was. After she said, "Yes", I then told her the truth. I told her that I was Polyamorous. I told her how I felt. I told her that I had genuine romantic feelings for more than one person. I told her that I wanted to spend my life with multiple people romantically. I told her that my life felt incomplete when I was Monogamous. I told her that I started dating a new man... I was behind her when I told her. She was sitting down at her desk. She didn't turn to look at me. She sighed heavily. A minute went by before she said, "As long as you're happy, then I'm happy, even if I don't agree with it." I began to smile before she added, "Just no threesomes in my house!" We shared a laugh with each other following that demand. Now she asks me every day, "How are your guys today?" and requests, "Tell them I said 'Hello'!" I was very shocked by her response to my "coming out". Considering her views in life, I was expecting the worst of reactions and responses. We see life very differently. We believe very different things. But her accepting me for who I am made me the happiest Poly girl in that very moment. I love my mum.
Meet the new poly couple, Chris, Megan and Leigh Ann. Tahl pushes his boundaries when Jen wakes up and finds him in Kamala's bed. Do you wonder what it is like to be in a polyamorous relationship? Do you currently have an romantic interest in two or more people or thinking of getting in... Get a sneak peek look at the new documentary reality series Polyamory: Married and Dating. In 2019, who gets to define love? According to a growing number of Americans, love today means not limiting yourself--or your partner--to just one. Polyamory... While approaches polyamory/non-monogamy are as diverse as the people practicing them, here are four types of polyamory and the differences between them. Tell... The Pod heads out for a special lovers retreat. Tahl wants to come out to his parents.